Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose Archives

Quick SES San Jose 2005 Session Coverage Recap

Here is a quick recap of all the sessions we covered over at Search Engine Strategies San Jose 2005 at the Search Engine Roundtable.

- Mobile Search
- Search Algorithms: The Patent Files
- Weird Science: The Next Generation in Media Planning and Buying
- Earning From Search & Contextual Ads
- Eye of the Storm: Lessons from Large Search Marketers
- Searcher Behavior Research Update
- Search APIs
- Personalized Search & Search History
- Vertical Creep Into Regular Results
- From Broad to Specific: Capitalizing on vertical search and other niche publishing opportunities.
- Competitive Research
- Keynote Conversation with Ask Jeeves's Steve Berkowitz
- RSS, Blogs & Search Marketing
- Fun with Dynamic Sites
- Ad Management: Do Humans matter?
- Should You Chase The Algorithm?
- Link Building Basics
- Landing Page Testing & Tuning
- Ad Reps: Friend or Foe? - How to Handle Situations with Search Engines Going Direct to Your Clients
- Indexing Summit 2: Redirects, Titles & Descriptions
- Search Engine Advertising Forum
- Converting Visitors Into Buyers
- Local Search Marketing Tactics
- Executive Roundtable with Search Engine Executives
- Advanced Linking Strategies
- Site ECG
- Buying and Selling Links
- Usability Clinic
- Search Engine Q&A On Links
- B2B Tactics
- Organic Listings Forum
- Spanish Language SEM

Thanks Ben, Chris and the SES team!

Chris is going to post daily recaps as well, day one, day two, day three and day four.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 11, 2005 6:01 PM Comments (5)

Spanish Language SEM

Moderator and first presenter: Barbara Coll - WebMama.com
Wants to talk about the long and short term look at this market segment. Offers the opportunity to ask questions at anyone's convenience.
Will talk about the buying power opportunities, for those who are advertising in Spanish, reaching out to the Spanish marketing segment online. There has been a major growth in the buying power of Hispanics in the US as well as growth overseas. 10% of disposable income by 2007 will be from Hispanic community. Recent study by Media Channel shows that 82% of Hispanic online users made a purchase in the last year. Example: Pedro Martinez of NY Mets. 25% of pro baseball players are Latino. 2 weeks ago, the Mets decided to focus on the Spanish marketplace. They realized that the original community which was the Jewish community no longer lives near the stadium and is now Hispanic. Shows a search for "boletos de beisbol ny mets." Results (mostly English) do not reflect search listings in Spanish, and PPC ads are in English too. Same thing with "boletos de beisbol" one of the top organic results has Spanish content indexed as description, but the title tag still says official site of MLB is in English.

English enters into media for Latinos, but still need to focus on supplying Spanish content. Search advertising industry milestones: First SES Spanish session was Chicago in December 2003. Now IAB has a Hispanic committee. More focus now on standards. Online portal milestones: AOL Latino, Yahoo Espanol, MSN Latino, Yahoo purchases Terespondo in April 2005, the largest PPC network in South America. (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/002142.html). Recognition of the second language of the US gives credit to the launch of the new MSN search for having a tab for Espanol right on their search home page. For Google, you can do this, but you have to go to personalized home page. Problems: Is the search entered a typo or another language? "Camara" still interpreted as a typo instead of being Spanish. Difficult problem to solve for SE's. "Real estate in Denver" search: Hispanic market is fastest growing home sales in this market. All organic, 80% of the website (sorry missed it) traffic came through the Internet. Another thing to remember is that kws are different in another language.

Lucas Morea - Latinedge

Stared with monografias.com, now one of top 5 Spanish websites in terms of traffic, achieved thanks to basic SEO and original content. Wants to make an emphasis on the online to offline relationship. According to Jupiter, each dollar generated online, travel companies received an additional $5 in revenue from research that came online. "hoteles in Acapulco" search at Yahoo gives the option to change to English, but displays organic Spanish results. He also tried some searches at Google Mexico which showed that the total number of results found were approximately the same, but if the search is done in English, there is about 6 times the results.

Paid search landscape in Spanish? CPC and volume are both fraction of the cost of comparable English searches. Even though it is less volume, still certainly "worth it."

User sophistication: long tail example. In English the difference between one word searches versus multiple words: 3 times as many multiple word searches. In Spanish, the opposite exists where one word searches still dominate, but not 3 times as many. This reflects how Spanish users are still learning how to search.

How do they get on the net? In South America, many many people get online in an Internet Cafe, which makes it less likely to make a purchase online due to security concerns. How do they buy offline? In the US, phone sales can happen, and more accustomed to credit cards. In Latin America, cash is preferred. Human contact is very important to Spanish market. Must increase points of contact with potential clients. Need to provide email support. Users want to know that there are people on the other end. Good idea to reply with a name instead of just a company. If you can provide live chat: even better. Call center or support service very good too. Good way to make online work in Spanish market is by using lead generation forms in order to make the sale offline. People follow up filling online form. Another very successful marketing campaign has been email marketing to optin network in Mexico (only method used), which resulted in selling out of 10k units of stock, all offline sales.

Once again, important to increase points of contact, by adding a phone number to a site, sales increased by 54%. Also seeing the number there and knowing they could call someone if needed helped increase online conversions from 22% to 37% in one specific country of Hispanic origin. Other statistics point that the addition of the call center has increased sales. Conclusion: the more offline capabilities you have, the better you will do. Even with the perception of offline presence, people will be more likely to buy. Also, make sure your expectations are moderated because it is a small market. Goal should be considered as ROI of Zero in order to break even and gain future clients. ROI will increase thereafter. Make sure the site is consistent with your offers. Start right away: get ready to build reputation. Build landing pages in both Spanish and English unless targeting all Spanish speaking company. Provide alternate forms of payment.

Ignacio "Nacho" Hernandez - iHispanic.com (note this is a true leader in Spanish SEM. if this is your market, he, Lucas or Barbara Coll are three of the most knowledgeable people in this field, in my humble opinion). Nacho handed out a recent white paper discussing this topic. It is available at his website.

Announced by Barbara that Nacho has just convinced Jupiter Media to hold an all-Spanish conference in the near future: SES Latino 2006 in Miami, FL July 10-11th, 2006. (Applause)

Used an example of the empty chairs in the room to describe how you have a great opportunity to gain market share where your competition is not present. Why the Hispanic market? Covered by Barbara, but showed that total Hispanic population is 434 million, with an online pop of 61 million! Myth: US Hispanic don?t have credit cards. This is totally incorrect. Credit Card use among Hispanics had grown from 48% to 57% from 2002 to 2004. 13 Million online US Hispanics spent 5.6 Billion in 2003. Recent study (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/002254.html) showed that 5 of top destination sites for Hispanic users were search sites. Should look into paid inclusion and PPC. Focus on creative of landing pages and ads, both ?en espanol.? PPC issues: although most niche industries are still unexplored territory, competitive kws in Spanish have clicks cost rising 10-25%. Be prepared to see higher page abandonment if landing pages and process flow are poorly created. Be careful to not use pictures of non-Hispanic persons (blonde, blue-eyed people on the site, for example). Conversions may occur offline, but prepare to offer alternate payment methods. SEO strategies. If you already have Spanish content, then get it indexed first. Gave example of Univision.com now having 1.3 million pages already at Google. Y! only 119,000 and even less in MSN. Search for ?casas neuvas in san diego? at Google shows a good first result, but another listing shows terrible title tag, snippets and missing keywords in url. What language should I use? In South America and Central America, you should use Spanish, but in the US, make both versions.

Case study about mexgrocer.com focusing on Spanish keywords used by Spanish users, such as for example ?salsa verde Mexicana" and bilingual landing pages for keywords that may be reached by Anglo or Hispanic users. They used to have mexgrocer in English and mexsuper.com in Spanish, and they were ?butting heads? for some terms. Careful when doing kw research-often backwards in Spanish from the English version. Marks in words should be dropped. Misspelling is very important because 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanics start to forget the language, for example ?Pozole? original spelling vs. ?Posole? which is now searched more. Sea

Search Engine real estate.. Shows a great example of hw they have dominated the top 5 organic listings as well as paid listings for a particular term. They are using a distributor?s site that has been optimized for the same term, and fulfilling orders through mexgrocer as well as their alliance with Amazon to gain real estate from 43% to 86% above the fold. Build link popularity?same rules apply: high traffic and relevant sites only. Use press releases with PRWeb and AmbosMedios in Spanish. Local search is going to be very big in the Hispanic market. Apparently 71% of Hispanic households are in just 20 metro areas. An example San Diego/Tijuana shows 41.4 million dollars per day are spent in San Diego by total defined market. An example would be to shop for ?Car? keywords in San Diego. English CPC $3.43, $2.80, $2.20 and $2.30 versus same keywords in Spanish .22, .21, .35, .16...a 94% savings! Results=Higher ROI. Don't panic, use tools such as Google, Yahoo Search Marketing and Terespondo while it's still available (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/002080.html) to find keywords. If you already have Spanish content, check your log files for kw's used to find. Look at SERPs for other relevant keywords.

10 tips: Have realistic objective strategy. Be committed to the market. Do a readiness assessment. Set aside enough resources. Do research as to what language to use. Use effective creative. Start with paid programs. Remember that organic results more competitive. Test. Hispanic market is not one size fits all. If you are ready to commit to this market, don't just target TO Hispanics, target AS Hispanics.

Q&A

"What about translations that are done poorly or translated into standard Spanish when the site targets Latin America. Would it be wise to translate it into regional Spanish. Would they think you are spamming?"

B: says "no"

L: Spanish from Spain is very different, and can be easily seen by Spaniards . There is such a thing as "neutral Spanish," which is what he would recommend translating-to.

Nacho: their services provide a process known as "standardization of the language." This is very intensive translation and works well by taking translations that have been done in multiple Spanish dialects and adapting them to a more common Latin American Spanish.

"How to start when trying to setup a call center in SA, for example?"

L: There are a lot of outsourced call centers that can do this.

"Any statistics regarding income level for local areas?"

N: Buy the Synovate Report (costs $1,000, but worth it)

Some attendees gave example of success stories based on the recommendations given by the 3 presenters in previous SES shows.

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 11, 2005 5:12 PM Comments (0)

Meet the Crawlers: Submissions and Feeds Edition.

Moderator: Danny Sullivan
Welcome focusing on indexing and submission issues.

Kaushal Kurapati - AskJeeves
Brief intro of AksJeeves. They reach 25% of US audience. Crawler goals: follow robots.txt standards. We try to practice “Politeness“: be gentle to your servers, you can tell us where to crawl, not crawl. Use noarchive, noindex, no follow standards. Efficiency: compression saves bandwidth (up to 75% savings with gzip). Also avoid duplicates. Freshness: variable rates of crawling. Completeness: multiple file types: html, PDF, Flash, MS-Office, XML. Time/date stamp your content helps. Simplify site organization and navigation to ensure crawlers can reach all parts of the site. Use site maps. Watch out for infinite pages such as calendars serving the year 3001. Do not put session ID’s on URL’s. Can I submit my site for indexing? We have gone away from site submission, we are able to find site organically now. My site pages not in index yet? Patience please, various speed of crawling. there is a FAQ page for spiders. JavaScritp- parsing difficult. Dynamic pages cause for mores selection in indexing, screened for dupes before crawling. URL’s within images cannot be followed.

Debbie Jaffe - Google
Will tlk about sitemaps. Help people discover more of your web pages. G site maps: what is it? Free and easy way to help G discover more about your sites. Allows for direct informing to G about site changes. Enables G to crawl site more effectively. This is a collaborative program with webmasters. Intended for all sites large and small. Web masters and users get better crawl coverage, fresher search results, and a smarter crawl. How does it work? Create a sitemap using sitemap geenrator available at G if you want (search “sitemap generator Google”) Submit a simple text file with all your URLs. Can included relative priority of pages (not relative to other pages on the web, but relative to yours. Then submit the sitemap and update as needed. Ned to setup an account as a webmaster. You can then track all of your submissions via easy to use reporting system. They think it is a great BETA program worth trying out in order to help G provide more and fresher content. Wants to add that this is just a supllement to the standard crawling occurring already.


Tim Mayer - Yahoo!
It is great to see another company adopting feeds, Y! has been using these since 2001, and has great experience and good results. Overview of Y search vision enable people to find, use, share, and expand all human knowledge. Focus is on “Find.” Search not for sake ofs earching, but to achieve a purpose. Once you have found something you can share the knowledge with others. One thing people forget is to link pages from other pages. To encourage deeper crawling, would recommend not makji gsite depth too extreme (3-4 levels recommended). Use free addURL service if all else fails. Submit.search.yahoo.com/free/request. Index friendly pages: Unique content with page-specific titles and descriptions. Separate pages only when there is separate content. Multiple domains only when there is a distinct business. Avoid spam such as kw stuffing, excessive cross linking, no cloaking, Yahoo crawlers include Slurp. Seeker, Multimedia crawler and audio-video crawler. Supports c command in order to stop caching. Can also add a crawl delay to help your servers. About to launch “Site Explorer” to see how many docs are already crawled in the index. Siteexplorer.yahoo.com (something else here) announced today. Find and save SS feeds available below search results. Add.my.yahoo.com/rss to add your RSS feeds within about 48 hours, then you will see the link appearing below your listings in the future. Search Submit Pro is a paid feed programs that allows for reporting and complete control over titles and abstracts. The paid Inclusion system is an entirely different content system than the main crawl. Over 99% of the index is crawled for free. Lists a fairt amount of support links available at Yahoo, including site questions like “I think I got banned, etc… the best is yet to come…see Yahoo search Blog at ysearchblog.com and go to next.yahoo.com to see new and future products.

Q&A.
“Is there a way to do the Google sitemaps type system at Yahoo?”
Tim: We just launched the feed to be able to do that. We will be expanding the products into the future.

Danny asks how many are using G sitemaps seemed as if a fair amount), Yahoo! Aid inclusion? (same amount) anyone using one system to submit to both? (none-seemed surprised by that.) Fair to say that the room would encourage you all to come together and do this.

“Does the sitemap feed effect the regular crawl?

D: No it doesn’t effect that. It does allow for additional information added.
.
Danny asks how many people that use sitemaps have benefited from it, molst have. Only one person ahd no effect, and no one raised their hand to “negative effect?”

“How to make sure country-specific engines pick up Yahoo content?”

T: No brainer way is to get a separate domain for each. Other way would be to make sure there are inbound links from that specific country to the particular content on the site. Somebody comments that you have to live in the country to get a domain. Tim says there are some services available that can be costly that provide this sort of help.

Danny ads that if you host in a particular country…it will help. Linkage is very important, especially if Authorities such as BBC in UK, for example

D: The index being generally the same is the same thing at G.

“anything in addition to using 301’s when changing a large site and changing many URL’s. Not root, but wanted to use the top fifty pages with 301’s?”

Tim: Why changing? They are going for more search engine freindlyness. Tim wonders why change if you already have good rankings. Danny answers to the idea that many search term appear in URLs in top searches, that many top ranks do not employ that. He thinks it is porbably other factors causing the content to be indexed highly. Danny ulls up a couple searches and shows that it is more important for the kw to be in the tile than in the URL.

K: They feel that content is the most important instead of the other stuff.

“What is the determining factor of how many poages get indexed?”

D: each individual sitemap allows for up to 50K URL’s. You can out sitemaps in individual directories if you have more than 50K pages. The re is no specific quota that she is aware of.

T: The importance is high quality signals such as authoritative inbounds links, no spam. There is no one factor that can be described as the largest. There are lots of things you can do to help the crawler want to dig deeper.

K: Two things that are factored are the depht of the site as well as if you have a dynamic URL that may block the crawler.

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 11, 2005 5:09 PM Comments (0)

My SEM Toolbox

For the last session of the conference we have Chris Sherman moderating the My SEM Toolbox session. On the panel are Ken Jurina, Bill Hartzer, Jim Boykin, Paul Bruemmer and Todd Malicoat.

Jim Boykin from We Build Pages is up first. He starts off discussing the sandbox and brings up The Way Back Machine (waybackmachine.org) to see when the site was first found by TheWayBackMachine. He also uses 123promotion.co.uk/tools/age-of-website.php to find the day the Web site was first found as well. He also asks people if the site they have is a resource or not. So he uses a spider simulator, like www.gritechnologies.com/tools/spider.go to see if the page has lots of text and pages with lots of text is more of a resource. Do you have unique content or not? There is a tool called copyscape.com where you can find if they stole your content or not. Where can you find all this and more? URL Research, back links, alexa, similar pages and so on, go to the Fagan Finder, faganfinder.com/urlinfo. He uses the Google allinachor command (allinanchor:keyword phrase typed into Google) will tell you the sites that have the most anchor text pointing to a specific page for a specific phrase. webconfs.com/anchor-text-analysis.php is good for analyzing anchor text. Looking for related topics, kwmap.net is a nice tool for related phrases and neighborhoods. What about backlink neighborhoods...linkhounds.com/hub-finder/hubfinder.php helps you with this. Check your rankings; use digitalpoint.com/tools/keywords.

Todd Malicoat also from We Build Pages is next up. Domain/Server Level information tools: whois.sc/yourdomainhere.com, dnsstuff.com is great for doing IP lookups, ip-report.com gives you a break down of sites on the same IP block. Competitive information tools: GoogSpy.com will tell you what types of terms your competitors are bidding on at AdWords, extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/switchproxy allows you to mask yourself when you do your competitive research. Backlinks and off page analysis tools; webuildpages.com/tools/internet-marketing-google.htm, this tool will return the number of pages indexed in Google/Yahoo, backlink to site or page the pr and so on, linkhounds.com/link-harvester/ gives you good info as well. Keyword information tools; labs.google.com/sets/ Google Sets automatically creates sets of keywords in the same family, gorank.com/seotools has an ontology finder tools. Header and Page Level information; webrankinfo.com/english/tools/server-header.php tells you the server header http status. Spidering and indexability, home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html is a desktop tool to tell you your broken links and redirected URLs, gritechnologies.com/tools/spider.go has Poodle Predictor. He also plugged rand, seomoz.org tools.

Ken Jurina from Epiar to give us 6 tools. Firefox extension tools: getfirefox.com, pros is tool works right and is very quick, critiques, none and cool (tons of extensions). Web CEO tracks SE rankings, comparing a sites performance vs. competitors, exporting reports to clients but it is a bit slow (free but can go up to $400+). ClickTracks is a web analytics tool, path tracking, ppc info, exporting reports is not too easy and has a wonderful interface and visitor clickstream tagging options (costs free to 10k). LiveStats (deepmetrix.com) good reporting options, easy to understand and good export options, a bit difficult to login, price ($195/month to 1795/month). Roboform.com is a good tool, it remembers all your passwords, fills in fields when campaigning a web site, include profiles, price ($29.95). MarketLeap is easy, online, free, does link pop, search engine saturation and keyword verification.

Bill Hartzer from Intec. Optilink, www.optilinksoftware.com tells you link pop, number of outgoing links, easily analyzes link text, its an offline tool. OptiSpider, www.optilinksoftware.com spiders one site, compares link text to page topic and title tag, discover which link text or page title needs improvement, great for analyzing someone elses site and this is an offline tool. Ranks.nl/tools/keyword_combinations.html allows you to combine two keyword lists into one and expands it. Ranks.nl measures keyword density where you compare two page's keyword density to each other. www.keyword-helper.com helps you find more keywords. URLTrends.com shows PR, alexa, number of incoming links, page info, dmoz status and so on but it has an rss or email notification system. More tools; seocompany.ca/tool/seo-tools.html, digitalpoint.com/tools/, seotoolset.com, seochat.com/seo-tools/.

Paul Bruemmer from TrademarkSEO was last up. Alexa: Reach, Rank, Page Views, Compare Sites and Similar Sites, Site linking in. Ranking Manager reports by engine, keyword and so on. LinxViewer: it shows you what a spider might see. Yahoo! Finance: client information and trends. Hoovers Pro Plus gives you details about client model, client competitors and so on. Print Screen Deluxe, capture screen shots (americansys.com) just any easy way to do screen captures.

Forum discussion at SEW Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 11, 2005 4:45 PM Comments (0)

Meet the B2B Search Engines

Michael Doyle from ThomasB2B is going to talk about B2B search and a issues with B2B search. There are a couple types of B2B search, name of the company is known but not much else. What gets interesting is a supplier search and you don’t know the name of the company who supplies this part. If you do a product search in general engine, it works great. Major search engines and shopping site provide good consumer results because of defined list of product codes. It’s a relatively small list of well known brand names. B2B search is characterized by lack of common product codes/brand names and millions and trillions of parts. Some manufacturers have millions of products in there catalog.

A typical person doing sourcing in the B2B space. The B2B searcher spends a good portion of her day looking to fill a critical need for a product. Time is money he says. Purchasing decisions are very important to the buyer and the selected supplier. Traditionally done with print directories and manufactures/distributors catalogs. Everyone had a proprietary classification systems to organize suppliers by the type of product made. The decision to create a product category is typically made by a human editor. He puts up an example of a Google search for twisted shank drill bits. Its shows an eBay ad (which is irrelevant), the organic listings are not relevant either as its catalog and nothing to help source the product. He puts up an example of how ThomasB2B search, and how they list companies and show how relevant the pages are and clean too.

Directories are only as good as the number of companies listed and the freshness of information. Print directories gathered information useful to print users, like phone, fax, address but many companies do not even have a website. #1 compliant of ThomasB2B is you can’t click through. The company product specification data needs to be published in indexable formats. They think there needs to be standards and tools are the solution. Product classification is important (UNSPSC started by the UN). Software tools for classifying product content and a general consensus about content/data types as well. This new index will allow companies to include themselves in a standard index if they adopt general standards.

Up next Jeff Coyle from KnowledgeStorm is a information technology directories and provides structured information to mainstream sites and magazines. The information technology directory is aggregated content from thousands of vendors. Over 2 million visits per month, with a network of 160 sites. Product and service listings as well as white papers, demos, web seminars, etc.. KnowledgeStorm looks at user behavior such as researching & staying current on technology trends. Supporting a buying process and decision. One of the challenges for them is not getting the searcher there, it’s structuring the information so people understand it and generating a lead for their client. They help develop a portfolio of marketing efforts to leverage current marketing collateral. Jeff next showcases vertical search for technology such as built in direct response to requests from our users.

Sarabjit Singh from GlobalSpec was up next. He starts with describing the evolution of the television. In 1941 the first 2 TV stations licensed, etc.. For 50 years 3 stations owned the market. Its very similar to search engines today with the mass market engines. They do a great job, but they believe a similar trend will happen, and their will be a specialized engines for specific needs. Globalspec was founded 10 years ago, and have about 150 people. He explains they looked at what people wanted on the web. They make the dark and hidden web visible by offering information in their search. He explain how their engineering search works. He says they provide deep parametric, technical part and service search. Appears they offer a good service for their clients. Submit websites to them, www.globalspec.com/submit-site

Brennen Beyer from Business.com is going to talk about what they are offering to the market. He says it’s a slow growth business, it’s a fragment audience, and they are trying to reach decision makers. Business.com lists vertical markets, they are also built on a directory structure. They do not crawl the web. He explains how the engine works, advertiser and content layout on Business.com. It’s a CPC based engine, and its all paid placement. They don’t necessary power search on other sites, but its does take up a good part of what they do. Business.com has a reach of 3.5 million users per month. He says they are here to understand the needs of users. There directory becomes powerful as it can help offer suggestions for problems such as a search for “employee performance”. The directory might suggest “performance improvement” categories. Why is it worth it build a vertical search engine? Its because it has a higher concentration of decision makers.

Mark Cordover from It.com. It.com is a vertical search engine that focuses on IT market. He says traditional marketing began in the ancient bazaar, as people where hacking their wares to people that based by. He says things have changed, its “core routers, and managed hosting” instead of beads and clothes. Search marketing provides consumer pull, not vendor push. He gives and example of a story about Madison Avenue magazine, has a sparkling water company wanting to creating an ad in a magazine to make people look at the ad. Apparently you get to the page, and its explodes in bubbles, causing you to look at the ad. Marketing on vertical search engines delivers a targeted audience. So if you put all the vertical search ideas together you get a virtual trade show. He ends with some advice they have learned. How best to present yourself in a virtual trade show. He gives an example of a great ads. “PalmSource delivers IBM Websphere Everyplace …importance of embedded java in a mobile device more than 3 million java developers can deploy applications, then the url”.

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 11, 2005 2:37 PM Comments (0)

Measuring: The Time Warp

Chris Sherman introduces the panel saying that metric people looked at was simply click through. That evolved into conversions, ROI, CPA and so on. Today we have lots of metrics to use to see, plus we have the ability to track a customer over time. That is what this session is about.

Ben Perry from IProspect was up first. If you use an agent you get a big difference in results when compared to humans. He showed how the agent (software) was much more aggressive in bid prices versus the human. The agent brought in a 37% increase in ROAS and a 55% increase in conversion. Time matters in bidding. He overlaid clicks and conversions on a 2d graph, for a specific client, it was very interesting to look at. There are also weekly trends, especially with b2b markets. Then he plotted a monthly view, which showed a combination of weekly trends, but it doesn't always look the same way for each client. Then again he backed it out by year and you see the same trends, and seasonal trends. Time should impact your bidding strategy. For a low consideration product, 88% of all conversions happen within the hour (batteries, snickers bar vs. car purchase, home, plasma screen). For high consideration products, 46% of all conversions occur between 1 and 60 minutes. 46% of all the other conversions too more than an hour. He plotted a scale by days and it took up to 6 months or so. Customers who waited longer had an average revenue per sale of 329% higher then those buying within the hour. For this client, 44% of revenue is driven by repeat customers (life time value of a customer). So what if we did not consider the 44% of revenue as a life time value within the bidding. Non repeat revenue would have been 59% lower if we had not counted lifetime value.

Alan Rimm-Kaufman from Rimm-Kaufman Group was next up to talk about the time warp. 3 questions and 4 tips. How soon can we tell if something is working? Why do we care? How does this wait affect bidding? The sample: 1 million paid search click (random sample from 6/1/04 through 6/1/05 Google & Yahoo. 41,377 subsequent conversions (6/1/04 - 8/1/05. 85% / 15% split B2C vs. B2B advertisers. Long duration cookie. How long must we wait? many order come quickly, 50% within 28 minutes. But getting nearly all takes longer, 75% within 25 hours, 90% within 12 days and 95% within 4 weeks. Are they looking for you? Search phrase contains client brand: 50% in 28 minutes, 75% in 3 hours and 90% in 7 days. Search phrase down not contain client brand; 50% in 32 minutes, 75% in 1.5 days, and 90% in 13.6 days. Big ticket purchases? $0-99 1.5 days for 90% to order, 100-199 about 2 weeks, 200-399 about 2.2 weeks and 300+ over 2.5 weeks. Holiday affect, as the holiday season gets closer, they order quicker (they need it now). Vertical? Hobby supplies, 50% in 38 min, 75% in 20 hours, 90% in 6 days... Consumer electronics almost 16 days for 90%. And professional leads take about 3 days for 90% of those orders to close. Why do we care? On average it takes about 2 weeks for advertising to sales ratio to stabilize. Tip # 1: Be patient. Don't overreact to short-term results. Long cookies; method, long cookies 90+ days, order crediting in reporting; 14 days, 30 days as per client. Preserves full data, can recast history to show impact of max interval decision. Tip #2: Handle click to order interval in reporting, not in cookie. Bid management & day parting. Bid management must address click to order delay. Day parting must be on time of click, not order. Example; over 25% of Monday midday orders driven by pre-Monday clicks. Tip#3 compute economics on a P90 conversions. Tip #4: If day parting, day part on click date, not order date.

Finally we have Rob Gaudio from MEA Digital to discuss a case study for one client, Oakley sunglasses company. This is more specific about allowing enough time to measuring conversions for your paid campaign. Oakley, Inc. World's leading manufacturer of premium sunglasses. An expanding line of performance footwear, apparel & accessories, sold in more than 100 countries. Investments in Direct Busines; new e-commerce system in Q1 2004, paid search campaign in Q2 2004, redesigned site in Q2 2005. They only sell MSRPO. Brand conscious, historical focus was on brand image and not ROI focuses. SEM Program: They developed an extensive keyword portfolio, they implemented core metrics to track and optimized daily, weekly, monthly and compared to quarterly and annual data. Technology integration; Google/Yahoo PPC, Atlas OnePoint and CoreMetrics. SEM Test Plan: Objectives; optimize SEM program in time for peak buying season, discover optimal time to test creative. They executed a creative copy test, suing time as an additional variable. Used Google AdWords. Isolated other variables like keyword position, cost and daily budget. Selected a stable time period to avoid major seasonality. Success metrics; click to purchase, cost per sale, cost per order, conversions, etc. Consider outside influences; other media, world news, weather, internal company issues, holidays, and competition. Implementation. Creative tests: used top performing creative from 2004 as a benchmark. They ran 4 creatives at same time (did not use auto optimizer), for 4 weeks. Monitored results for 7 days periods, and cumulative. Compared data on 7, 14, 21, and 28 day periods. Results: Summary conversion data was consistent across all weeks to the total (would not have known that if we did not allow the time to past). Determined the best performing copy at the Ad Group level. More aggressive call to action creative performed best. Products are seasonal and require attention to the product level. Some creative did not have enough statistical data to warrant a change in Winter. Next on the horizon is to retest in Winter. Use learnings for future launches; international SEM initiatives in 2006 and new products and keyword categories. Monitor sales data from test period sales for repeat purchases. (1) keep good historical data, (2) seasonality is important (3) give it time, (4) keep it simple and (5) watch for outside influences.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 11, 2005 2:31 PM Comments (0)

Organic Listings Forum

Open Q & A under Danny Sullivan, to the panel which includes Mike Grehan, Bruce Clay, Todd Freisen, and David Naylor.

Q: I have a huge site, template driven, city, state templates, why do some search engines not index the whole thing? Like MSN?
A: They all say MSN has deep crawl issues.

Q: Please make comments about the last Yahoo! algorithmic changes? She has one whitehat Web site, which has disappeared from Yahoo!
A: DaveN said Yahoo! has been looking throughout the social network to find footprints. You might have some past issues. So email them and ask them to fix it.
Mike said that for his major clients, rarely anything ever changes. On the less frequent queries, Yahoo! has been doing all whacky things (tail keywords).
DaveN clarifies that he has been noticing that Yahoo! still ranks you well for a specific keyword phrase but it takes you to a more top level page, and not to the most direct page. Yahoo! is working on it now.

Danny then goes into Yahoo! MyWeb 1.0/2.0 features.

Q: I work for a site that has about a million pages in Google but a week ago, the homepage dropped out of the index. He spoke with Google and they said that his site is not penalized, but it will come back shortly. They just updated the index and it will come back.
A: Bruce said this does happen and it does come back pretty quickly. There was a flurry of this with 302 hi-jacks. Also if people have server issues.
Danny gets the site example is cardirect.com and if you search in Google for cars direct, the jupiter media affiliate link comes up.
Todd asks if he is 301 redirecting it, he is not.
Its nice to see them all review this stuff online.

Q: The SEs talk about how it is evil to buy links. But yet you can buy links from Yahoo! Directory. There is a directory of directories listed by PageRank. What do you guys think of those types of links?
A: Todd said picking up a link from directories will never be a problem. If you get 500,000 links overnight, that might be an issue.
DaveN said you have to realize that the search engines lie to you. DaveN said look at how Yahoo! Travel buys links on search engine watch to rank well for travel.
Mike said he used to buy text links in newsletters and now those are archived and they have links for $75 forever. He describes how to find these types of links, search for "gold newsletters."
Bruce said the only ad he buys is the one on SEW for $5,000 per month. Danny said he doesn't get a commission. He gets about a 120 targeted visitors per day. He said how he once moved many of his links from one site to a different one, and the site he moved them FROM actually increased in rankings. Bruce said, buy for the traffic.
Danny pulled up Google's Webmaster Quality Guidelines.

Q: The delay in powerful rankings, i.e. SandBox. In New York someone said something about a 301 redirect from an existing page with pop it out. He did it, and it worked. Does theme matter when doing a 301 redirect to give that site a way out of the SandBox?
A: Mike said, if they link to a brand new site from one of the large brand sites, it doesn't have an issue. But without that link, it sits.
Bruce said, he is not a believer of the sandbox theory. He said the links the sites get are unnatural, he feels this is what is going on. On the flip side, if someone comes up with the cure of cancer and gets a billion different links overnight from all different IP addresses, then that is natural. Bruce said, it looks unnatural.
Todd said this worked for some, didn't work for all. Everyone has theories and no one really knows. IMO, Todd is dead right.
Mike said the search engines know which sites are popular, and they know user behavior.
Danny brought up hosingmaps.com, which didn't exist until april and shows how it ranks number one "housing maps". One reason they are not sandboxed is because it was Matt Cutts's old roommate (kidding) but its a popular site.

Q: Structuring a multi-language site, 14 languages, the problem is the .com, .co.uk and so on. How do I make sure they rank well in the respective local engines?
A: Mike asks where are you hosting them? In each respective country, and that is a good thing.
Bruce said get links from those sites ranking well in those engines and it will help.

Q: What tools do you use to check rankings, and make your job easier?
A: There is a session today named "My SEM Toolbox", go to that.

Q: Extension of multiple languages...We have an European site with the Queen's English. Is there a duplicate content issue? They are hosted both on .coms and they are both hosted in the USA.
A: The panel is unsure, depends.
DaveN: But you are doing it for a legitimate use. If you want to be safe, change file names, and so on.
Danny said move it to a server in the UK. But he said you should be fine.

Q: Site structure question, with local information, using subdomain. i.e. city.foo.com vs. food.com/city
A: Mike said If you go to about.com you will see that they use subdomains well. Use that as a guideline.
Bruce said subdomains was a great way, in the past, to boost PR. Now Bruce said it doesn't matter either way. It depends on the site.
DaveN said subdomain names scare him, he used them in the past often, but never uses them again. He said don't use them because spammers used it a ton and if they blow up the spammers, there will be collateral damage.

Q: Yahoo! Instant Messenger as being a factor towards rankings?
A: Yahoo! tries to use user data but you are probably confusing personalization. Danny said he is not sure if Yahoo! Messenger has MyWeb built into it. Danny explains that this stuff is now moving to your desktop. Mike adds that he was talking with one of the data guys at Yahoo! and he said that how would it be if you just types a query in and you got the answer right away. DaveN bought an ISP just to see user patterns. Google has larger access then DaveN. HitWise buys data from ISPs, its crazy stuff. SEOs screw around with their data, so they give us APIs and SiteExplorer. So they get as much data as possible from as many sources as possible. DaveN adds, if Google is reading my gmail account, he will have loads of gmail accounts where he has them talk to each other about all his wonderful sites ;). Mike said personalized search is changing the idea of having a #1 result.

Q: What are industry best practices for testing purposes? I don't want affect my rankings by testing.
A: Bruce said Just noindex those test pages, just for your PPC.
Todd adds you can add a referrer and serve up pages to test based on that. But if that page does well, you want to switch, then your worried if your rankings drop. Most of the time it won't, depending on how you do it.

Side note: Mike says duplicate content issue, do a search on a paper named "mirror mirror on the web" to learn about it.

Forum discussion SEW Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 11, 2005 1:26 PM Comments (0)

B2B Tactics

Moderator: Detlev Johnson - Search Rank

Karen Breen Vogel - Clear Gauge talks about B2B Search Marketing, the “considered purchase”

Clear Gauge focuses a lot on their optin email efforts. An example of why you need to be holistic in Internet Marketing. Considered purchase: what is different? Goals are to start or drive relationships. They believe that the Internet is more of a relationship medium. Engines: major se’s and b2b focused verticals. Keywords: buying cycle and role based. This is the major difference, emphasizes buying cycle, buying cycle, buying cycle! The major difference between B2B and B2C. Messages: value proposition and offers aligned to buying cycle and role. Landing pages: options for interactions/content/next date. Must give them options since you do not know where they are in the buying cycle. Tracking ROI: Show ROI Pipelines. B2B people think of pipelines. Listed thing people may be doing. Including educating themselves, ID various solutions, etc…they are at some point in the buying cycle, so your goal is to place your desire to form a relationship into the prospects search path. Paid versus natural., be relevant, but filter the prospect in the messaging of your PPC campaigns. Use negative keywords and other methods of pre-qualifying clicks. Measure and optimize valuable business behaviors such as where the clicks come from and the following behavior. Goal si to be able to communicate again via email. Many variables that im pact paid search: campaign groupings, ad groups, content vs. search ads. Kws, negative kws, ranking positions, match types, bid price gaps, daily ad caps, bid prices, message titles/descriptions, display URL’s, multiple messages (A/B testing), Conversions. Google emphasizes placing higher priority on campaigns with higher daily ad caps. Guy with biggest budget will get most activity. Raising ad caps is a good signal to G that you are in the game to stay. Key Pillars: Find (kw list research, root term methodology, Case study: tactics (went from 47 to 1600 terms) versus results (400% increase). Second pillar is engage: use operative keywords (similar tho theory of “latent” keywords from the (Monday session). Matching strategy important in order to expand audience. Landing page relevancy is important in order t put visitors into your pipeline. Instead of just telling them that solution is “X,” you should tell them you understand their problems and have solutions. Last pillar: measure value. Tracking highly valued activities, optimization logs, continuous improvements, pipeline visibility. Advanced tracking architecture…gives example of a spreadsheet that covers many aspects of the web site and its users’ activities, in order to discover which keywords work best. Equating things such as optins and downloads to measure where they are in the buying cycle. Also uses scenario groupings of certain pages that work together to create a good end result, need to take corrective actions. A good sales person will walk out of a bad sales call and immediately try to discover what happened wrong, and then address that on the next call. In summary, must focus on entire buying cycle, engage all prospects at all points, be prospect-centric: use problem, not products messaging. Focus on most important business metrics. Optimize your program to what you care the most about: do not optimize to traffic or clicks, but instead to actual business results.

Paul Slack - WebDex
Appreciates us showing up on the first session of the last day. Agenda: B2B sales cycles, who to target, how they search, developing an Internet marketing strategy. B2B sales cycle: Figure out who is making the decision. Uncover the need, research possible solutions (they will do typical due diligence at this point), pair down to short list of vendors, go to bid, make decision. SEM is involved in both research and decision of short list. Enquiro study of SE buying funnel. Awareness 8.7 consideration/research 68.3, 42.6 decision, purchase 28.2. This is why it is so important to be present on the Internet during the second two stages. Influencers and decision makers will use SE’s differently. Influencers: website needs to be an “influencers-catcher>“ use specific words, they are more likely to respond to ca call to action, will typically “bite” on comparison matrixes, webinars, trials, demos, etc… Sources of content important to them: spec sheets, white papers, product pages, newsletters. This allows you to communicate effectively with the influencers. These things make the influencers’ jobs easier by giving them the info to download and show to their boss. Gives an example of a white paper written that was about a certain compliance issue, and now it is number ne at G for a search of that issue. Very targeted to people that search for this exact solution to their need for a software. Also, the white paper uses a conversion form to gather info at first (giving up info to get info is accepted). 17% conversion rate for this form. Decision makers: different because they are late-cycle. They search for validation. High level searches of 2-3 words instead of the 4 word phrases influencers tend to use. Less likely to respond to a call to action. Look for sources of content. They purchased the term “Sarbannes Oxley” for a client, and the positioning in PPC for that term makes the client look like “one of the big boys.” Very high level landing page geared more towards the decision maker. Developing an Internet Marketing strategy. Website don’t exist for their own sake, but to fulfill a specific purpose and to satisfy specific consumer needs. Define goals and objectives, understand audience, understand conversion activities, know budget, use measurement, refine and make changes for improvement. Circular pattern: define, refine, measure (repeat). (Technical difficulties - presentation computer locks up.) They use a spreadsheet in order to get as much info from clients/prospects as possible regarding their goals and prior activities. They determine a qualified lead is defined as someone with a eed and a budget. The more you can define this, the better chance you will have at success. Use their COA goal as a benchmark, and determine that they will be happy as long as you can stay below that. Then you can determine how man y accounts the website needs to close in order to match or improve on other marketing activities. Then figure out based on the conversion ratio, how many visitors are needed. To sum it up: “Begin with the end in mind.”

Christopher Grady - Merak Communications
Has done all SEM in house, thus invited to speak from that perspective. Four main issues: Turning business hurdles into SEM advantages ID kws and engine sin b2b2, biggest kw targeting mistakes, and Monitoring activities that lead to buying.. Turning hurdles into strategic advantages: disadvantage, you cannot actively sell a mail server, advantage: they do use the Internet to find a solution (a replacement for their faulty mail server. Identifying engines and kws used in B2B: conducted behavior usability studies and continue to find out info measuring sales cycle and after purchase. Kw analysis study included study of terminology used by competitors, related forums and usenet, technical books, categorical terminology, terminology used in mags and newsletters., wrote custom DB application to help with task. Ended up writing a kw ref guide for use by all their content writers to refer-to. This corporate dictionary helps them have the best possible kws constantly infused into new content. One big kw targeting mistake was accidentally ranking for the term “email.” since the product is B2B they fielded about 70 useless calls a day. They found that their largest customer found them using an 11 kw search, second largest used a nine kw search, etc…they actually ended up finding non-optimized pages. Largest customer used a core keyword and then a list of requirements. They have used a forum to help their communications with customers. Found that monitoring closing rate based on pattern of downloading and subsequent behavior.

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 11, 2005 1:09 PM Comments (2)

Search Engine Q&A On Links

We got Tim Mayer from Yahoo, Matt Cutts from Google and Kaushal Kurapti from Ask Jeeves on this single panel. No one knows what is going to happen now. Danny is modding up.

Ask was up first, he gives his company info slide, yada yada yada. He briefly reviews how the link analysis works here. Page A links to page b and c, that is a recommendation from page at to page b and c. More links, better you are, in short. Then he discusses the Ask Jeeves approach, the whole community & hug/authority thing....He then describes that all links are not equal. Be careful of reciprocal links and purchasing links. Avoid link farms, cloaked pages, invisible or hidden links and links by images - text based links can be understood, but not image links. Become and authority on a specific subject. Focus on your business and content and the rest will follow. Blog links do not mean too much from the blogrolls to Mr. Jeeves.

Yahoo! now. Tim announces a new product named Site Explorer, http://sitexplorer.search.yahoo.com/ where you can get your linkage data. It is a place for people to go to see which pages Yahoo indexed and to let Yahoo know about URLs Yahoo has not found as of yet (submit URL or URLs). He showed an example, you basically type in a URL into it (this is also supported via an API, good good), then you hit explore URl and it spits out the number of pages found in Yahoo Index and also shows you the number of inlinks. You can sort pages by "depth" how deep pages are and you can also submit URLs here. You can also quickly export the results to TSV format. Links have been very popular, he said Yahoo! has been moving towards the social community aspect and probably will go in that direction with link pop. He said, create natural links, make it look natural.

Google up now. Matt goes up with no presentation. He said Ask Jeeves covered most of the basics, and basically recapped it quickly. If Matt was someone starting out, he would get links from...HousingMaps.com shows you craigs list stuff on Google Maps. It has been around less then a few months and it got tons of links quickly. Also think about useful services to offer (validation tools for rss feeds, etc.) Matt ran across one that makes signs dynamically, he built his own "watch out for falling spam." If you don't have to ask for links, that is awesome. Add one new page of content everyday. Syndicate my content. Matt Cutts started a blog today, www.mattcutts.com. Make a community, reviews, forums, and so on. One of the best ways is to think outside of the box. For example, one of the seo contests (cant spell it).

Q & A:

Q: When I do comparison across the engines of who is linking to me, I see differences between the two. His answer he got was that the link command isn't full accurate.
A: Matt said that they used to show only important backlinks. But then someone suggested to show random samples of backlinks. They have never shown all backlinks. They do have all the backlinks at Google but they do not show them all.
Tim shows more backlinks then Google, they do not show all links but a more comprehensive link. The new system will "be very comprehensive" he wouldn't say it is every link.
Kaushal said you would see a difference, because different engines filter spam and dups differently. Also not everything is exposed and each engine takes a slightly different approach.

Q: I have a client that has a great site, lots of links but the anchor text being used throughout the web is the same.
A: Matt said that is very unnatural. Most natural links are not 100% one exact phrase to the site. It won't hurt you, there is no OOP, but all the links might be devalued.
Tim agreed with Matt on it being unnatural.

Q: Reciprocal links; we have them now, we have plans to do more, what should I do? There are 20 of them links.
A: Matt said here is my rule of thumb, pretend you are my competitor, what would they think of it? Plenty of people have reciprocal links but if its excessive, then you need to be careful. Editorial given links and independent links are best.
Danny then asked 4 people in the audience to point to each other and then asked several to point at each other.
Matt said if you go into "graph theory" you have a "clique", that clique is when everyone in a network is pointing at each other, that is not natural.

Q: How do you know when too much is too much?
A: Tim said that is the hard question. It is all about "intent".
Matt adds that if you take this to random 5 people outside of the SEO community, they would agree.

Q: Do none clickable links count as back links?
A: Matt said he has never been asked that, and he can see it both ways. Google has the code that they can flip the switch either way - but use the hyper link.
Tim said its best to get the hyper link.
Ask Jeeves said the same thing as Tim.

Q: PageRank; is it important or not? With the rel="nofollow" thing, if I cared about my PR, I would use nofollow on all my links to keep the PR within my sites. What are your thoughts? And is there a correlation between PR and number of pages indexed?
A: Most Webmasters say PR is not as important. Google has always said there are many variables in the algo and they keep evolving. Very few people outside of a search engine can say exactly how valuable a specific link is from a page. In Matt's opinion, the nofollow has been a very valuable thing for the search engines. It gives the Webmaster the ability to say if I vouch for this link. So now we have this new type of data the search engines can use, he said its being used very responsibly. If you can authenticate or trust a comment poster, then there is no reason to use the nofollow.
Tim just repeats what Matt said.

Q: Query strings at the end or URLs, when does that make it a problem for engines?
A: Matt said 3 or more, its not great, but GoogleBot sometime is smart. Don't use id= in it, and if you have numeric parameters, dont go above 4 numbers.
Kaushal agrees with Matt, but a limited set of parameters are ok.
Tim adds that if you have inbound links to those dynamic URLs, they will more likely crawl it. Yahoo! is less considered with duplicate issues.

Q: We build directories, what is the proper way to link out from those directories?
A: Matt said you love something, you need to set it free. It looks very weird to have tons of ibl and no outbound links. So static link those out.

Ok here is some fun. Danny was showing examples of high PR sites and Danny joked about sometimes Google goes up to a PR11. Tim Mayer then said, "Matt, that is only for advertisers." Good one.

Someone asked why Yahoo!'s PR went down from PR10 to 9, why did that happen? Tim said because of the index size announcement. Matt said we don't do that, we don't give ourselves (google) a 10 because we give a 10. He said, we are too busy for that.

Tired...Stopping...Good Night.

Forum discussion at SEW Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 8:44 PM Comments (6)

Usability Clinic

Moderator Elisabeth Osmeloski

Site reviewers: Shari Thurow and Mathew Bailey

Came in fairly late…had to catch the rest of the exhibits in the expo before it closed. Sites are being analyzed for usability issues. Walked in on the discussion as the site actuate.com was being reviewed. Issues include using a drop down menu on top bar “tabs.” Shari feels that these bars can sometimes make people less satisfied, since they clicked on “Corporate” for example, in order to find out about corporate, they now have to make another choice. Instead , the sub-menu should be presented on the corporate “home page.” Recommends breadcrumbs in order to know where they are on the site. Someone in the audience mentioned that the use of capitals in the menus…

Tableandhome.com. Asked what the target audience is, and the owner wasn’t exactly sure. Drilled down to the toys>cool animal stuff>stuffed animals>sea life found “stop lights” and asked why? Those indicate in stock if green, legend is on bottom. Note that may be better to just put “in stock” instead of making the puzzle. Calls to action are good. “Add to registry” is excellent idea too. You can only buy one item at a time? The add to cart button at the bottom gives the choice of numbers. Once again something at the bottom that should be closer to top. If did a visual affordance test to find out what looks clickable, left nav bar doesn’t seem clickable. If you have to mousse over something to tell that it is a link, then it is NOT user friendly. Some pages seem better than others…the ones that have more info above the fold, primarily. Check out page. Should be using a 1, 2, 3, 4 idea to let people know what the process will be. Good thing is that first page doesn’t ask for personal info too soon. Shari noticed with a client that they had a large abandonment rate due to the fact that they asked for too much info right away instead of letting them place the order and then give payment info. Overall there is not enough color differentiation, which makes it difficult to see what is happening. Next stage in checkout asks for sign-in or create an account. Elisabeth asks the room how many people would leave now, and approx 90% raise their hands. This is bad because now you are asking them to go through all this stuff. The people were ready to buy, but no longer. Why do you have to enter info in order to find out shipping cost. The problem according to Shari is that the shipping does vary based on location. Shari feels that they need to hire a pro usability firm to analyze site using a heuristic process. Needs more color differentiation too. Landsend.com is Shari’s favorite example of a shopping cart page. Another point made by audience that once name and address is captured, the person should never have to fill that out during the rest of the process. ? Says people buy based on emotions, and if you make them stop to think, the feeling could go away. MPABS rule from Shari mentioned a couple of times: “Most people are basically stupid.” Remember this when working on usability.

Edgewisemedia, a Yahoo store site. Shop.store.yahoo.com/edwisemedia/index.html. Too many links. Good headings, not using the word products anywhere, which is something he likes. Shari recommends a three column layout, and feels that the products are not categorized as well as landsend, for example. No “Sony mini DV” heading on that page when drilled-down to, and also needs to use more keywords on page. That sales page also looks like the DV costs $290.00 since that is on the same line as “add to cart” and the rest of the sentence is the line prior (says 100 for 290.00.

Cisco-eagle.com Products page: categorize the products differently, the A through B idea makes it tough to navigate. People do nto search alphabetically. Usually people expect the products to be categorized. This would be a good candidate for a “card sort test” and a “reverse card sort.” This takes a while, but will be able to see how people would categorize your content based on one product per card. Detailed assistance on navigating is cool, but sounds a little ominous. Also, the “all” or “any” above the search button but well below the box is confusing. Needs breadcrumbs. No “mental model,” once again - bread crumbs make this much better. Navigation becomes difficult once in the shopping area…Shari says when she goes to the online catalog, she loses her “friggin ladder.” (laughs) Long term plan: find an commerce solution that is search-friendly.

Govisitcostarica.com. Google ads are too dominant. Distracting from calls to action of the site. This gives people four unique calls to action before they even see the content. They are off the site almost immediately. Need to get people to make a reservation, if that makes more money than the AdSense revenue. The comment made by the owner was he is having conversion issues. He then seems reluctant to want to move the AdSense. Shari says “that is the type of client that makes me crazy: ‘I am having conversion issues but I don’t want to change anything.’” Further…too many drop downs. Shari: “To put it politely, this is a navigation disaster.” Card sort and visual affordance test. Check and see if people click on drop downs in menu’s, if they do, keep them. Logo is nice, but the whole site needs potentially a few color changes. First fix nav, then determine what you want somebody to do, and call them to action.

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 8:24 PM Comments (3)

Buying and Selling Links

Moderator: Danny Sullivan

Intro: Called buying and selling links, probably should be called buying. We have covered links extensively, but the goal of this session is to learn more about buying.

Patrick Gavin - Text Link Ads
“Evaluating links” what to look for on the buying side. This is really about buying a static html link to help with organic rankings. Many benefits: direct traffic, link pop, branding, spidering. Used links found at SEW as an example of excellent links because they are both text and images (to help with branding).

Criteria: theme traffic, incoming, outgoing, location, spider ability and anchor text. Theme: use topically related sites that are “on theme.” Many ways to still receive targeted traffic without being an “exact theme match.” Incoming: Look though analytics, and you may see a pocket of links from a small article or mention of the site. If you got traffic from this, it may be worth pursuing more from the same site by offering a little cash. Traffic: Use Alexa to get a rough idea of traffic, but best to get a media kit if available. Since the whole concept of buying links is new to some sites that you may contact, it may be difficult at first to explain that you need a fixed link for a certain amount of time. Keep an eye out for use of redirects. Traffic: single page vs. site wide. Some people have a concern that buying too many site wides will get you in trouble. Patrick’s opinion on this is that with a more established reputable site it may be easier to get away with this. Incoming links: general indicator: PageRank. Better indicator, using link command at Yahoo, which does seem to prioritize links in terms of value. Outbound links: the fewer the better. Be careful of getting into neighborhoods that are unrelated by linking out to those. Location on the page: probably best to place in main area of content if possible, but he hasn’t seen evidence that it being in the footer area, for example, is any detractor. Spiderability: do a cache check to ensure they are indexing the right domain and check for duplicate content, also cache search will show how much of the page is being cached. If links box is not cached, the link will not be found. Anchor text is important. Wrapping it up, the basic strategy is to “be natural.” Mix up anchor text, mix single page and site wides.

Eric Ward - ericward.com
Takes a moment to thank Danny Sullivan for everything he has done for the SEM industry. What not to do: use systems that you get in email offers that offer links in 750,000 websites for only $39.95 . Consider other places to buy links that you may not have, including, e-zines, blogs (recommends blogads.com as a very valuable service), newsletters (example: ivillage.com and their categorized newsletters) (remember that this is about traffic that is relevant, because these will not be crawled or indexed by an SE unless it gets archived), auto-responders, RSS feeds, PDF documents (example: approach someone with a specific white paper or something that they have which is relevant, and offer to “sponsor the document”) You can also use a PR service to buy links within popular publications. Session presentation online live at ericward.com/ses.

Thomas Bindl - OPTOP
Avoiding Technical pitfalls. First off, is the Google PageRank real? Shows an example of a page that shows PR9, but deeper research shows that it is cloaking content of Disney to gain the toolbar rank. Check cache, backlinks and use “related:” command at Google to see sites that G finds similar. Fake links: easy JavaScript redirect, no-follow, etc. Harder to see: Cloaking. Look at source code to see if there is a different URL being shown “on mouse over” than the actual destination. Redirects look for them too. Look for tags and also check META for Robots.txt. Flags for “harder fakes” include no cache at all, META tags different in cache, or cache different. Penalties - one way to tell if a site has been penalized is by using archive.org. Warning that link mat be bad: PR doesn’t get passed (should be the page‘s PR minus1). Links exists for longer than 8 weeks. Big rotation of sponsors. Don’t feel a boost after 2 weeks.

Greg Boser - WebGuerilla
Brief comments. He is very happy that there is now an actual session on this topic because it used to be considered so “bad.” The wild wild west of buying links is settling down and people are beginning to understand that it is advertising just like any other form. Sees that paid links will continue to be a part of their links in the future. Suggests adding it to your mix.

Debra Mastaler - Alliance Links
Brief comments: Good points made by Greg. You should make sure to spread your message across a wider audience that there is nothing wrong with buying links. The challenge now is convincing sites to host links, especially if they have not done so in the past. In regards to selling links, using the auto responders after a sale has been made is a good idea for that since they are already respecting you.

Q&A “what kind of investment should you make in link buying?” D: depends on the market. P: agreed, can be anywhere from $25 per month for a quality link to upwards of $5000. G: looks at competitor and helps to determine spend . Ie 3 competitors, one just buys links, one blog spams, and one uses keywords: in this case you may be able to just buy a few links. Natural seeding from just a couple of links from authoritative sites.
“How do you judge value of this and how fast can you see results, in order to be able to sell the idea of buying links to upper management?” G: it does take a while to get results from this. Benchmark, know where you are at to start with, build naturally (G is starting more and more “white hat” every minute)
“Are you sure we will not be penalized for buying links?” G: first of all they created the problems, doesn’t feel that they can come out and say “no.” Danny sells links and it hasn’t hurt him. Danny then describes that SEW has been selling off topic links since before G was even around. Some people have suggested that they use a there (in Internet Commerce box) but developers are reluctant to use that. In essence, we would be talking about this if it was just an AdSense box, which Google wouldn’t care about (audience claps) Greg agrees that G thinks the only sold textual ads should be AdSense. Danny speaks about the long history of buying/selling links when Stanford was the first site being indexed for links…
“Is there any negative reaction by se’s when they see content inside of a box that is identified as being sponsored? or if they are repeated” P: not really in our experience. Danny: speaks about how Google never answers a question “straight” but tends to speak in generalities, he mentioned that in relation to site wides, they are not necessarily going to penalize a site, but where they used to count 30K links, as Eric said, now they will only count one. P: says that he agrees, they have not seen any negative connotations from this practice.
“Do you use tools for information?” G: we have in house tools that do not necessarily follow all the rules, since we scrape results, etc to get more information. “optilink” is pretty cool. Debra: likes “Track Engine.” Eric: says you can track changes to a search results and use Track Engine (which is very affordable). Danny says that you can also setup any search result as an RSS feed. Other cool things are coming up.
“Do you have any sense that links that rotate will end up helping for SEO?” Danny (the questioner was speaking directly about SEW ads) did the sales people ever tell you that they would help your SEO? “NO” (Phew) He is being told that the links are not sold for any search engine value, but rather purely for traffic. Other speakers agree that this probably cannot hurt either.

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 6:18 PM Comments (3)

Site ECG

Elisabeth Osmeloski is the moderator.

Rand Fishkin was up first from SEOMoz. I missed the beginning since some of the speakers go thirsty and I ran to get them some liquids. His presentation is at www.seomoz.org/ses2005-site-ecg.swf - Detecting Link Popularity Manipulation Schemes is done through search for "Spam Islands". Link Vault, DigitalPoint, TrafficPower/1P and private party link schemes are out there. He said dont use these if you're not prepared for the risks. Back link over optimization penalization; over optimized anchor text, speed of link gain (new websites normally do not get links quickly, there are exceptions) , link sources (site wides, community based links, off topic links). Google's Sandbox; He defines the sandbox. The penalty or devaluation of a site by Google resulting in a vast discrepaency between ranking at Google vs. MSN, Yahoo, Teoma and Google'[s own "allin" searches. The phenomenon first observed in March 2004. Does not affect site universally. No One knows exactly what causes it. Can affect 301'd sites as well. Rumors vs. Experience in the sandbox; it does not only affect sites with only unnatural links, it affects all types of sites - also it does not only affect commercial or competitive keywords. Analyzing Web Page Text; the goal is to discover the most important terms (the focus) of the document. Search engines go through these steps; linearization, tokenization, filtration and stemming. The Term Weight Formula is TF*IDF, basically helps search engines find out what topic the page is about. Automatic Topic Classification; search engines classifying documents automatically via text analysis and constructed ontologies vs. learned categorization and text quality analysis (training algorithms to find higher quality results, measuring reading level, flow, grammar, spelling and so on to judge text quality). Click Through Rates & Visitor Analytics; click through rates in the SERPs, time spent on the pages, data from toolbars, and log file and visitor stat analysis. How Best to Optimize Web Sites & Pages Based on This Data? Natural link and content building is best, judge the links and link services with great scrutiny, and write your own text. What to Watch Out For? Visitors tracking or log analysis programs that search engines have access to, toolbars and data collected through them, tools that claim to measure keyword density or page topic, and low quality links.

Anne Kennedy from Beyond Ink was next up. What is your site's search ECG? Diagnostics & Forensics; index count, google cache, xenu link sleuth, seo-browser.com and server logs. The index count shows you a few things; look for the titles and tags showing in the SERPs with a site: command. You can tell if a page is having spidering issues with just the URL is listed. This will also show you dead links, 301 those pages (supplemental results sometimes). She then discusses supplemental results, anyone in the dynamic site business has seen some of these issues (Jake will talk more about this hopefully). Doorway pages built for search engines found with the site command. Signs of a healthy site; a good title, good snippet, cache, index count, back links and good 301s. Spam Penalty Symptoms; back links disappear, sudden drop in rankings, supplemental results appear, decreasing page count, "no information" for your domain. Avoid Risky Behavior; ffa links, doorway pages, multiple domains with different links to each, mirror sites and hidden text. ICU for Site Search Flatliners; clean up the wounded pages, excise those doorway pages, hidden text, comment tags and use Google sitemaps, yahoo site match, plead with the search engines to get back in and then be patient. She then brings up the form to contact Google, www.google.com/support/bin/request.py and type "Re-inclusion Request" in the subject line. Yahoo go to add.yahoo.com/fast/help/us/ysearch/cgi_urlstatus.

Jake Baille from TrueLocal is last up. He will give us specific things we can do. There are very few "hand bans" or penalties. What this means is that if your site drops X places you are most probably not banned. Why Ranking Changes Occur? A change (internal or external) in linking structure to/on your site, search engine algorithmic changes, link calculations, on page changes and so on. The canonical page problem; side effect of link architecture, first observed in October 2004, specific to Google and the cause is inconsistent link references to directory index page. He explains the issue with it with a diagram. Symptom: An important page drops completely for a term, being replaced by another page in a mediocre position. Solution: Consistently reference your pages. If inconsistent references are external,s et up a 301 redirect. 302 Hijacking; side effect of redirect handling, first observed it Jan. 2004, specific to Google, and cause improper decision making with respect to redirect handling. Source --> Destination. Google has an algorithm to make the decision on whether to show source or destination. That algorithm can be manipulated and redirect would be replaced: a "bait and switch." Symptom: A URL form another domain shows up with your title and description in a position you used to occupy. When you click on the link, it redirects you. Solution: contact Google. Duplicate Content Issues: This filter is totally intended. All three engines have these filters - Googles is the most sophisticated. Yahoo experiments often with this and now is pretty tight. Symptom: On a site command pages from your site have a little message after them talking about duplicate content or pages being the same. Solution: Change your pages enough so that they aren't all the same. Also consider 301 redirect form all duplicates to a main page. Slow Death; specific to Google, triggered by irregular link patterns: Google is smart enough to know that a million page site should have more than one incoming link. Slow death can be triggered by massive content copying. Be careful with affiliate feeds. Slow death is not the supplemental index, do not get them confused. Symptom: URL listed in a site query with no title or description. The URL only shows up. Solution: Get more links, or in the case of content copying, add content and get more links. Bugs: SE bugs do happen. Before reporting a bug, look at all your options to make sure its a bug. Report bugs to webmaster@google.com and ystfeedback@yahoo.com.

To be honest, I did not agree with everything said in these presentations. But I am just reporting on it without sharing any opinion or views. :)

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 5:56 PM Comments (3)

Advanced Linking Strategies

This session is going to be moderated by Danny Sullivan. They have not done this session before to this extent. There is a lot of people in here, and I would bet that about 90% of them are site owners looking for help with linking. Its great to see such a response for this session.

Starting off is Greg Boser from WebGuerilla. He asks, how do I develop an effective linking strategy? Identify the most visible sites with your space. Extract and analyze the backlinks from all three search engines. (anchor text, unique domains, PageRank, and domain registration). Build a profile of each competitor that outlines the types of tactics being used. Evaluate the cost/benefits of the various tactics being used and then emulate the ones that make sense. He describes ways that viral marketing works very well. Web tools is an excellent way to grab links. You want to create a tool that is useful, give it away for free, and embed a link with descriptive anchor text.

He puts up an example of an RSS feeder that gets a large amount of links for news feed display. They rank up at the top for this and it’s a result of all these sites linking to it. He also suggests that doing software distribution is a good way to build links. You can distribute your links to many free promotion sites.

Affiliate programs are another way to build links. He says to avoid the big third party affiliate systems. Develop or use a system that enables you to get credit for your affiliate links. Avoid creating duplicate content. Develop guidelines that control how affiliates link to you.

Eric Ward was up next, and he talks about his experience in the link field and announcing web content over the years. He says the process is not much different than it is now. He works with small and large sites. He says content is rather important and that most people will not link to crap. Eric goes into his explanation of Link Reclamation. We have good coverage on this but I will detail it again. He says that if you keep the same directory structure but change the domain, then reclaiming links is easier. For large sites with hundreds of inbound links this can be overwhelming. When every url on your site changes that means every link from every other site to you site becomes useless, unless you take steps to prevent that from happening. The steps to take may vary on your location. He suggests a program call Link Survey, it’s a cheap program but lets you know who is linking to your old domain. The 301 redirect approach is the best bet.

He says links are a great way to build links, however there is a lot of misinformation out there. He says search engines can’t find all your links. Why? Many reasons. For a better understanding of how and why links might or might not be discovered by engines. He recommends a great article about invisible link by Chris Sherman. Eric talks about non-web based links. Some of the most valuable links don’t appear on web sites, they appear in email based communication (newsletters, discussion posts, zines, etc..). An example of this would be Forbes Picks of the Week, Yahoo Dailywire subscription.

Debra Mastaler from Alliance Link was up next. She asks whether anyone went to Google or not last night. She says she will be talking about Linking for Rank. What works, what we should stay away from, and what’s effective. Effective use of anchor text is one of the single most important tactics you can use to gain rank. You can use it in inbound, outbound, and internal links. She recommends optimize your site first. Work on including you links the navigation links. They put up an example of a site that she worked with and give an example of keywords in navigation links, and keywords in anchor text in content zones. The inbound linking structure is important as well. Sites need to emulate a natural linking pattern. Stagger link text, utilize all keyword phrases. Deep link into pages with keyword filenames. Secure links from a wide range of PageRank pages. Link with authority sites within your niche.

On getting your links on other people’s sites. Place links in content/editorial areas, avoid “typical ad spots” (footers). Link gradually, correlate with content growth. Avoid getting large number of links with a corresponding jump in search volume. Debra suggests to link out. Engines analyze sites by their inbound and outbound links. Build credibility by links to sites who mention you. Helps establish your site as a topical resource by linking to authority sites. Cross linking, how much is too much. “My rule of thumb is how it would look to a visitor or to a competitor. I’d be careful with brand new + lots of sites + lots of cross linking. Its okay to cross link” ~ Googleguy.

So how do you we attract links. Develop and/or distribute link embedded content to establish authority. DIY guides are good, article libraries, survey results, how to instructions, product reviews, and sample. She offers an example of a client she had who made an article library. Establish yourself as an expert and get on a journalists radar. Write and distribute optimized press releases highlighting content in your resource center. Keep up on trends and buzz words become cutting edge. Speak to a journalist once a week, become their expert source.

Are directories still good for links? Yes, they are still very good. However there has been some issues with directories dropping out of the index. What to avoid in a directory. If they have more search engine ads then content, categories are not filled out, and so on.

Chris Boggs from G3 is going to give some information about underestimating the value of links. He talks about the downside of links, such as ranking for unrelated words. He gives an example for a site that ranks for loan information and how powerful these directories or link can be.

Mike Grehan says he has a slightly different view on links these days. He says don’t be a link collector, be a business developer. Start to think about business development and think about the value the link has. He says PageRank is green fairy dust.

Q: On anchor text, does it matter if you have the same anchor text for all your links?
A: Yes it does matter, when they look at links, he says its very easy to spot unnatural and natural linking. When you try to force the issue and make all the link text the same, its real easy to spot. You want to emulate creating a natural link pattern.

Q: Quality of links, will Google refine their techniques to look at links?
A: More and more you see less and less of the “crap links” and because of this is the sandboxing new sites, which have a lot of these links. Also engines figure out they may be giving value to a site for something they don’t deserve and they remove the effect thus lowering their ranking.

Q: Affiliate software
A: Search on “naked link technology”
Q: Domains with hyphens
A: Anything with more than 2 hyphens the quality drops off. Yahoo reps have stated they look at domains with more than 2 hyphens and flag them possibly as spam.

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 3:25 PM Comments (2)

Executive Roundtable with Search Engine Executives

Moderating this session is Danny Sullivan talking with a group of search engine executives about the future of search, what is going on currently and how they are making search better.

Yahoo spoke next and discussed Flicker first. Flicker’s content is all submitted and its discovery is by the overlay of social networks. They want to find and store these pictures. He says that is hard to show a picture of a horse and have a computer tell you it’s a horse. He says you can get people to do the heavy lifting and have human beings help determine what is importance and provide the information. The privilege to decide what is important should be given to the people. My Web is an example of this, and says the selfish motivation to grab this information and save it. Its works great. Flicker is a visual blog in a way, as they share their pictures and life with the community. Overlaying things like social search with general search is great.

Google talks about the Semantic web is getting a bit better. He says the next version of communities, is to have to have people tell the computer what they are thinking. There are ideas of communities and its lets people decide what voices are important of them. Trends such as semantics have been observed and that it looks promising for the future.

Yahoo: Personalization is important. The opportunity to change the user experience and slide into a new generation of experience. The challenge is to bring in new experiences. The history of personalization has been good. Some of it has been red herring, as you chase something and find out people don’t want that. Doing the tasks and capabilities to extend the engagement opens up a lot of opportunity.

MSN: They think a lot of community. To summarize community, there are answers that people only in there community know. Community is an important part of searches future.

Ask: They launched something called My Jeeves last year. The notion to opening to the community, lets people get exposed to it. Tagging is important but for the vast part of queries daily tagging isn’t always possibly. Ask’s technology incorporates social networking technology. Their engineers all have these social technologies books on their desk. The technology will allow Ask to find experts in those communities. In regards to the semantic web, they can label the communities, and tell what they are about. In May they launched Zoom, and lets people get more in depth and they can identify what related searches are important to that query.

Yahoo: There was a big fear that Flicker would turn into a wild west type of thing. With adult images and such. Its hasn’t turned out that way and people have been quite helpful. Folksonomy has been a part of this. They introduced clustering recently, and you can get queries clustered together. Another feature they launched was Interestingness, it’s a way to measure how interesting an image is. He gives an example of how your mom may favor an image more than a strange. On the open web people try to game the system. They understand the relationships between people, and Flicker has been very helpful.

Danny: Another big change is the embracing of maps, and the exciting about this is the adoption. How do you see maps changing the metaphor of search? We will be able to fly through results?

MSN: They released Virtual Earth, and you can type in the three queries and these things pop up on the map. It’s really eye opening to do this type of search. You will go back.

AOL: Mapquest is an AOL property. He says they are his favorite features. They are working in the local market. The interesting thing about local is that its many facet. Mapping is the Rosetta stone for local. Its might be an exaggeration, but it will be an important.

Yahoo: Archive.org is a fun site to waste some time to look back in the past what things looked like. The ability to navigate through time will be fun. Using a map and navigating over time what it looked like in the past, or going to concert venues and such will be a next step for exploring some emerging areas.

Danny: Most people in search these days have jobs. Sometimes they are not even allowed to graduate. Where is research headed?

Google: As search becomes more central in people’s life. Things like dealing with information, user interfaces and so on are where some of the research is going on. Google invited a bunch of researches to investigate the problems and ways Google can help. Google is pretty typical as rest of the industry, thinking about shorter projects in short time, and then long term projects about human and computer interactions. In their research lab its pretty grounded.

AOL: AOL has a research activity which may surprise some people. They encourage Google and others to focuses on this. They don’t want to solve all the worlds problems. They spend a lot of time in IR, and incorporating thumbnail results and so on. Research is something that isn’t just refined to the academic world.

MSN: Research is fundamental for them. He says search seems like a conspiracy, as search has to make it relevant. They launched their search engine on Feb. 1st. and they are concerned with core metrics. Rank Net is a new way to rank these pages, and they have people there to think about the best way to use Rank Net. The question is whether they can have a closed loop for people to help their team give them what they want.

Yahoo: He was surprised at the amount of research going on. Yahoo was pretty modest at first, and today it’s a great place to do research. More and more people are becoming attracted to Yahoo.

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 3:24 PM Comments (0)

Local Search Marketing Tactics

Looks like I am following am following Detlev Johnson around, he is modding up this session as well. Oh, just finished that thing with Gary Price at WebmasterRadio.FM, so check it out. I'll be on tomorrow as well on WebmasterRadio.FM.

Justin Sanger from LocalLaunch was up first, he started off with some quick stats about the local markets. He will talk about local search marketing tactics for the small budget.
Tactics 1: Cleaning your core business data. Offline derived local content furnishes IPY and local search engines, generated from local regional phone companies and telemarketing forces. The accurate distribution of core business data is critical, that data must be cleaned. Focus on your Acxiom and infoUSA data and clean that data out (see also Yahoo, Google, Superpages and others). Think of this data as your foundation.
Tactic 2: Use of Business Profiles with optimized meta content. Local search engines rely on user generated content. This content easily obtained through business data providers nor by crawling the unstructured Web. Opportunities for businesses to distribute business information for free. All major local search providers accept business profiles (meta data as structured content). Business profiles feed pure search and assist users in comparative local buying decisions. A change to boost local business' rank within the local search engines. He showed an exampled of a Yahoo! local result and showed also how Yahoo! pushed the local results into the SERPs. He showed the same thing in Google, but also showed how Google crawled the Yahoo! Local results and it ranked #2 in the Google SERPs. So people will get to those pages, at least now. He shows how the local search engines show the business profiles.

Tactic 3: Riding coattails by studying your SERPs. Optimization beyond your Web sites. Google and Yahoo! SERPs contain the highest volume of targeted local searches. Determining authorities per Geo-Vertical result set. He showed a Google result for "auto repair san jose" top 6 results are local search engine listings, so get your company in those directories (yellow pages).

Tactics 4: Incentivizing and monitoring Reviews and Rating Channels. Businesses must pay attention to the published opinions expressed about their business. USer generated reviews and rating are subjective. Impact a business' reputation, status, and even rank within local search engines. Business profiles (even paid profiles) that are submitted by business owners may contain third-party reviews. He said imagine other people rating your business, you need to pay attention to it.

Tactic 5: Tap your social network: Local behavior patterns, local consumption is often driven by viral patterns. Our circle of friends, family, co workers. Checks and balances on user reviews and ratings are provided by social networks. Create a social network for yourself. InsiderPages.com allows you so filter reviews by these social networks. Judy's Book has a similar technology.

Tactic 6: Strategically utilize internet yellow pages. Verizon communications superpages leads the pack (PPC, PPCall, Distributon network including MSN Yellow Pages). The bells dominate the IPY arena, consolidation to compete with SEs. Category selection should taking into consideration SERPs.

When making determination on where to buy within these yellow pages, look at the SERPs to make that decision. No Web site is required for you to do any of this and its low cost.

Stacy Williams from Prominent Placement was next up. There are three different players in this space, Big Search Engines, Local Only Search and Internet Yellow Pages. There are two opportunities in this space, Editorial (sometimes Free) and Advertising opps. Ways to get into the local search engines. if you add a footer with the complete physical address of your company, helps you get into Local Search engines. She also shows how these local results vertically creep into the main SERPs. On Yahoo you can go to http://listings.local.yahoo.com to add your business profile. Bruce Clay and TrueLocal combined to come out with a "Search Engine Relationship Chart: Local Edition" at bruceclay.com, you can get it. Business databases include; www.amacai.com/form2/add/, www.infousa.com and on the bottom left navigation you can add/change your listing, GeoSign is an other but you can not submit your listing to them - they syndicate, Acxiom. You can also go to the superpages.com site to update your listing there, SwitchBoard click on the contact us and it is there somewhere. http://yp.aol.com/ is an other place you can add your listing. Advertising opportunities; PPC, flat fee, pay per call and so on. localsearchguide.org and kelseygroup.com are local information resources.

Patricia Hursh from SmartSearch Marketing was the last panelist, who will focus on the PPC solutions in Local. She will start with a Google case study and then compare approaches on Google versus Yahoo!. Case Study is for a national ISP company the goal is to reach prospects in regional service areas. Search advertising tactics included a national campaign, national campaign with localized keywords and a local campaign. (1) National; targeting US, keywords were broadband cable, broadband provider, cable internet, etc. the Ad is very national (nothing local about it. (2) National with Localized keywords; targeted to US, keywords were specific, new york broadband, albany internet, etc. and they tried to match the ad copy to the search term ([city/state here] keyword). Local campaign, targeting LA, Laredo TX, Bakersfield CA, and so on, the keywords were broadband cable, broadband provider, cable internet, and so on and the ad copy was very generic but Google placed the city name under the ad, right under the URL. Google will show a local ad over a national ad (if everything else is equal). The results: were more positive in terms of cost per order, for the local campaign. You can reach more people with an IP-targeted campaign than a national campaign with localized keywords. At least in this category the most cost affected way to go is with the local campaign. The IP targeted delivered the best conversion rate and the best cost/conversions. So why do national ads? Its very inexpensive brand building and you will miss some prospects with an IP targeted campaign because the technology is still not perfect. Regional targeting is available to all AdWords accounts, must have a web site, physical address is not required, advertisers can target by state, city, metro, radius of addresses and custom solutions and finally

Google serves ads based on searchers IP Address, search query and other factors. Yahoo Local Sponsored Search: separate product, so you need a separate account. Websites is optional due to hosted located page (examples showed in other presentations). You must have a physical address in the area you are targeting. Currently there is only one way to target, based on radius. Yahoo serves these ads based on search query and not based on IP address of searcher, also they use Yahoo registered member info and if you search with Yahoo local. Which is best for you? If you don't have a site, you must use Yahoo! If you don't have a local address, you need to use Google. If you need to reach an entire state, Google is preferred since Yahoo makes you do it by radius. If you are truly a local business, the locator page is excellent to drive foot traffic or phone calls. But if you are a regional or national company; Google works best. Google and Yahoo are very different.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 2:59 PM Comments (1)

Converting Visitors Into Buyers

Detlev Johnson moderating this session, he let people bring up business cards so that the panel can review sites live. I think that will happen later in the session, which I will leave for, since I need to head over to WebmasterRadio.FM to do an interview with Gary Price. Should be fun, I think it airs at 11am California time. So let's talk about converting...

Bryan Eisenberg from Future Now is up first, that popular book. 12 Quick Tips:
(1) Persuasive Online Copy-writing: People do read on the Web. If the content is useful, people will read and you will get results. You can't write effectively to your whole audience, you need to focus on that "one reader" and write to that reader. If you focus on averages, you will get average results.
(2) Know Your KPIs (key performance indicators): He asks how many people use Web analytics? Then said keep your hands up if you make weekly changes to your site based on those analytics. See his point? You need to look at sitewide conversion rates, % of new and returning visitors, book ratios, sales per product impression, sales per visitor, average order value and so on.
(3) Improve Your Navigation: He shows some examples of bad navigations and good navigations. 80% of your traffic drop off after the 2nd pageview. He then discusses the concept of "scent", good scent versus bad scent. It is basically important to have the descriptive words that people are looking for on the page. Links within the content are critical. There are two types of links, call to actions and points of resolution.
(4) Prioritize your Traffic: He shows how the more specific the keyword search, the longer the latency to order. Query language refers intent. Categorize your traffic by traffic potential, prospect's intent, stage in the buying process, and likelihood to convert.
(5) Use Eye-Tracking Principles: He discusses the magic square, people look at the sides of a picture and not in the middle. Eyes scroll across the top to the right and then back to the middle down portion. So what happens is that people are missing some of the content.
(6) Point of actions, call to actions: Nordstrom has verbiage about exchanges and so on right in the shopping cart. So you do not need to find it, during your buying process. LandEnd.com has the same information on the right hand side.
(7) Keep them in the process: Adding to cart, keep them on the same page but show them it was added to the cart. He also shows how enlarged images in new windows are not as good as keeping you on the same page.
(8) Reduce Download Time: Page load time is a huge issue as well. Downsize those images.
(9) Substance over style: He shows lots of sites that do well with blue hyperlinks all over the place and boxed out. Dont be too fancy
(10) Give them what they came for: Give them as much information as you can right away about the product.
(11) Recapture Lost Sales: give them discounts.
(12) It is never About You: understand the motivations and outcomes.

Mike Sack is the last speaker, from Inceptor. Why focus on conversions? Conversion for the sake of conversion has lost its luster, but conversion for the sake of profit is where it is at. Retail industry average conversion rate is 1.8% - not so great. In a store, the rate is 30%. Two Sides of Lifting Conversions: The Outside-In, which is getting traffic that is better and more qualified and the Inside-In, which is getting your current traffic to buy more often. It's a 4 Step Process to improve conversions; (1) Prepare Your Site (2) Target Your Traffic (3) Implement Conversion Tracking (4) Test, Analyze and Adjust...
(1) Preparing your site; compare your site within the industry who do it best. Emulate best practices, imitate the best. Identify the conversion points, make sure you measure all conversions. Now you need to do site side optimization (market research on how people search, make your site fit people's searches, you will not change how people search).
(2) Target your traffic. Target right keywords and products. More specific keyword phrases the more likely people will convert. Target more search phases, steam popular keywords, use match type options and comb your logs. Remember that it is not what you think, it is what the searcher things. He then puts up a graph that explains the keyword tail... Make sure to target the delivery of that traffic, directly to the page that is most relevant to the search query. Watch those click paths to best determine the best path for that specific search query and referrer.
(3) Conversion Tracking: You must be able to track a conversion back to a search query and a specific search engine. You need to be able to follow those click paths to the sale. You must be able to track both direct and deferred (latency) sales. Need to associate cost per click with a transaction and the revenue it generates. Must be able to calculate at least a "Gross ROI." And it is wonderful to track offline conversions (9 out of 10 are offline). He then shows some reports you should be using. Key metrics: impressions, click throughs, conversions, revenue, and ROI. Track offline conversions also (there is a session about this alone, and I have covered that session probably twice, check archives).
(4) Test, Analyze and Adjust: He gave a case study, to test various pages against each other. He tested different landing pages on various cases.
He then asks why is milk always in the back of the supermarket? Because that is the product most people seek out, so you drive people through the supermarket, and they are likely to buy other items. Offline tactics are very similar to online tactics.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 1:05 PM Comments (0)

Last Night: YPN Get Together & Google Party

Last night, I was invited with a few others to a YPN cocktail at some trendy place. Basically, all the YPN decision makers were there, including engineers, management and of course the wonderful PR people. Besides for chatting about normal things like family, weather, origin and so on - we did actually discuss the YPN product (i'll stick it below).



I don't want to get into specifics details about what we talked about, but I will say that these guys are very serious about the product. They understand the publishers needs and wants - as well as the advertisers. I am very excited for what is to come in the near future.

GoogleDance

I actually took a cab there from the Yahoo! thing, because I heard the lines were ridiculous to get on the buses to Google. The cab ride was just about $40, but I like to thank Shak and DaveN for sponsoring that ride. We pulled up to the Plex and we yelled out to the security people, "excuse me" but they did not respond. So have trying for a good 60 - 120 seconds to get their attention we decided to just drive right in. We breached security and went in through the backdoor of Google. We walked in from the Google entrance, as opposed to where the SES people came in.

The GooglePlex was packed with SEOs/SEMs, many more people then last time. One good thing is that they did not run out of beer this time. I heard some complaints about the food. Of course, I bumped into many people out there - I rather not name names, because I will leave one or two out. Towards the end, I saw Tim Mayer from Yahoo! and Paul Gardi from Ask Jeeves chatting. I wish you could have been there, it was pretty funny listening to the two go at it. I promised them I would not blog about what was being said, so I won't, but here it a hint of one topic.

Back to SES coverage shortly.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 10, 2005 10:45 AM Comments (0)

Search Engine Advertising Forum

Moderator: Andrew Goodman

Intro: Dana will speak briefly with an overview, and then the engines will speak briefly.

Dana Todd - SiteLab International, Inc.

What’s on my mind right now? Rank is dead. What you knew as rank before is no longer, things are getting weirder. Changes how we do things. You could say rank is unimportant, but you know that the sweet spot is in the top three, so what do you do? Banners are now “image ads.” Tools are improving. Click fraud still raising it’s ugly head. Tech limitations becoming a legal issue more often. Legal may be driving tech once again. Headline and hot topics:

Yahoo: Y! Publisher Network; Y! Audio search BETA; Ysearchblog.com (blog search); Marketing alliances program…yet still not loved by Wall Street. Still not as sexy as Google

MSN Keywords: Msn adCenter to include behavioral and demographic data?

AskJeeves anticipated PPC rollout this month.

Google gives/takes
- Now that you can stay active on high impressions terms, but tradeoff is arbitrary minimum bid
- Image ads: Site Targeting lets you cherry-pick network, but on a bidded CPM (minimum $2 CPM!!!)
- Testing longer ad text
- Video search requires special viewer and special uploader software….why can’t they just be normal?

SE Underdogs/up-and-comers?:
AOL- opens its portal to public. Buys X-drive for personal data storage (photos, video, etc). They have all the pieces to compete…will they? FindWhat merged with Miva…yawn ‘marriage of mediocrity? (laughs)
Become.com becoming next shopping engine? Baidu goes public - is there a China search market yet?
Pay per call heats up: VoiceStar and Verizon superpages.com

Dan Boberg - Yahoo! Search Marketing
(apologies to Dan: I has a tech malfunction and lost most of your stuff. Replaced what I could from memory)
Speaks about new increased training. Services, and partnerships. Yahoo Publisher Network will offer more categories and sub categories to choose from. Also increasing ability for both partners such as Ambassadors or referers (people that simply refer sites to Y! SM) to gain more knowledge. Partnering w/ USA Today, Walt Disney, and (something) by Boeing.

Paid search was #1 outside source for buying during holiday season. Objective : brand awareness. Search now being used for reach, engagement, and increasing awareness. Obj: competitive positioning. Companies measure positioning and work to generate a strong share of overall searches positioning/ Objectives: promotions, special offers.

David Fisher - Google

Describes the “Google-Advertiser-Website Ecosystem” and how they effect each other including the publishers. Want to look for ways to benefit everyone involved. Advertisers- complimentary way to target intended audience. Reach consumers during diff parts of the life cycle. Same powerful platform. Users - better experience, etc.

Site targeting- Target by affinities show add only on spec sites. Flexible bidding options and pricing. CPM bidding and auto ensures that you pay only the market clearing price for an impression. Creative control - advertisers can run rich text and static image ads as well as rich media formats.

Quality based bidding- minimum bids. As low as .01 cent CPCs, but also true that some will go up. “Active” or “inactive” only, no account slowing or disabling of kws. Will be determined by your maximum CPC only.

Urchin- kw analysis. Website optimization- allows for optimization (?!?) for certain browsers, software platforms, search Site overlay- visual representations.

Geo targeting - allow a variety of targeting mechanism all the way down to spots on a map or a five mile radius. Allows for different parts of the country to be targeted w/diff campaigns.

David Jakubowski - MSN Search

Brief comments. Very exited about new opportunities. Happy to announce that they are actively in the space, France and Singapore pilot is live. We have a vision for adCenter to be a one stop shop for all buying across MS. MSN Keywords product is the first step for MSN into the search marketplace. The US pilot will begin in October by invitation only. 500 already signed up, will also invite an additional thousands SEM’s/agencies. Control, flexibility and the ability to refine campaigns are the major goals of this. Advanced features: Geo-target, target by gender. day of week, day-parting.


James Speer - IAC Adverting Solutions of AskJeeves

Lots of exiting things happening. Last week sponsored listing products launched to existing customer base. Launching to everyone August 15. An untapped audience. Overlap between Ask.com and other major players is small: Yahoo!: 16%, Google: 14%, MSN 13%, AOL 9%. Old Jeeves has more sponsored links, only 3 on ask.com. This equals “cleaner” page. Reach across network though many others portals including iwon, excite, dog pile, tickle, clear channel and others.

We back our benefits with technology. Forecasting capabilities, ability to set campaign budgets at monthly level or daily targets, real time reporting, estimated traffic summary reports, and more. Personal services from your client services manager (with as little as 5k/month spent). Helping to prevent click fraud by ensuring quality of traffic is legitimate. Bid management tools from Atlas One Point. Little risk to try the new system. White papers will be available on webs ite soon. sponsored listings.ask.com will be the site to answer questions.

Ron Belanger - Carat Interactive (a buyer)

Even though we are not a search engine we decided to launch a PPC platform since everyone else is (laughs). How are we utilizing search in the larger scheme of search engine advertising (SEA)? Note difference from SEM. SEM is a DR medium: Ecom, acquiring customer, etc…while SEAdvertising allows for more things, including brand building, how to address the 85% of the marketplace that isn’t ready to buy? SE’s is one of few effective channels to reach a large audience of teens.

Pro and cons of search as a medium

Pros: Micro targeting, Leverage consumer intent, Minimal media waste, Relatively inexpensive, High customer engagement, Flexible

Cons: 70 characters of text vs. a 30 second slot that can deliver a much more powerful message. Measurment is still a challenge

Google interest and your brand. Who would buy a term like Paris Hilton? What about Carls Jr? Jessica Simpson? Dukes of Hazzard. Lindsay Lohan? Disney. Madonna? AOL is buying it already with their music channel. Good creative, good landing page. Good example of a savvy marketer.

Larger case study that AOL is doing: situation: aol decides to offer rich, deep content to general web audience. Current portfolio includes 109.7 million unique visitors per month, which makes it hard to create a collective message. Introduced aol radio, AOL television, AOL Latino, AOL music. Results indicate success. CPC had remained the same while traffic has quintupled (at least). (his company is privy to this info because they run the campaigns for AOL.)

Recap: SEM and SEA are different. Competition is fierce. Open horizon on sea. Turn consumer intent into the start of a meaningful marketing dialogue. aol,.com portal is a testament to the power of SEA.

Andrew Goodman comments that the AOL news is an inspiration (that they have taken a chunk of their marketing budget and dedicated it to SE’s.)

Q&A:

“Will search engines be providing demographic data related to their audiences?”

David F: there are 3rd parties that provide this info. Also itr is fair to assume that the audience is very broad.

David J: MSN will come out with very robust audience intelligence research tools.

Dan Borberg: Search ahs an advantage in that it can collect this data, but ahs not really used it effectively yet.

“Is it ironic that interactive media used to try to emulate traditional media, and now visa versa vis a vis (edited - thought that sounded cool :) the ability to track metrics?”

Ron: answers vaguely yes.

Question uncertain - something about tools that are difficult?

Dan: we are focused on keeping things simple, even thought here will be complexity under that simplicity.
David J: Leave control of various tools in the advertisers hands.

James s: key is integration with 3rd party tools.
“Why si it so hard to get numbers like market penetration or AdSense numbers and other basic information the way traditional media is?”

David (sorry not sure which one): we are focused on that in terms of providing that stuff in the future. First focus is to be able to track sales and drive business, then we will expand on that.

David F: Must be balanced against user privacy concerns. General market information is OK, but we must establish trust with users and their concerns.

“It is challenging managing 2 campaigns, now with four, are you going to encourage your customers to manage?”

Dana: Tools are able to integrate, such as Atlas. These new portals are completely different offerings, will allow a deeper understanding of the entire market.

Ron: Some clients come begging for mercy saying that it is getting more complicated. A little job security.

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 8:33 PM Comments (0)

Indexing Summit 2: Redirects, Titles & Descriptions

Danny Sullivan introduces this session as the best session to be at now. He said the other sessions are for those who are not serious about SEO. In NY they did the first SES indexing summit and they got some weather reports out of it. Danny said he wants to talk about two things; (1) standards with redirection and (2) standards on how search engine create titles and descriptions in SERPs.

Topic One:

Redirect Issues

Tim Mayer from Yahoo! up first. He said people were able to use some redirects to hi-jack sites. He put up the Yahoo! Redirect Handling Rules (covered in many past conferences, will link to document later). Just to touch on how they handle it.

Danny then goes into explaining what this issue of redirect hi-jacking is, http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/050801-130330.

Rahul Lahiri from Ask Jeeves was next up. He wanted to add, that Ask Jeeves had been looking at the problem and did not see a major issue with redirects at Ask Jeeves. He said if you run into these problems, let Ask know. He said again that people don't use the standards or guidelines. Ask realizes this and they make assumptions.

Matt Cutts was next up and he asks the audience a few questions. He then brings up the history of the Indexing Summit where Danny guilt-tripped the search engines to work together. It encourages Google Sitemaps for a paid inclusion, without the money, and any search engine can use the sitemaps standard. The robots.txt is from ages ago, and a good standard, nofollow attribute. He then moves into the redirect issue, like Danny did. A year ago, Google picked the URL with the highest PageRank. That worked very well most of the time but not always. So search engines had to pick the best URL, and PR wasn't the best way all the time. Right now, they are open to doing what Yahoo! does, just indexing the target URL. BUT, you don't have the pretty URLs. He said, Google will have lots of beer tonight at the Google Dance. But also there will be an event "Meet the Engineers" where you can discuss this with them. State at Google right now, is that Google is not aware of any hi-jackings, they need to tell Google about them.

Q: When is a 301 redirect spam?
A: Matt said a 301 is NOT spam when its a misspelling, redirected to the main site. A 301 spam redirect would be a doorway page, which are then redirected to the root page (i.e. cloaked pages).

Q: Do we need to use the robots.txt to block PageRank to them to be careful about spam?
A: Matt said just 301 redirect those. You do not need to exclude them in the robots.txt

Q: Is the redirect issue solved?
A: Matt said always go with the destination to be careful, but his engineers said, but we fixed all the issues with this. So he wants to show these engineers that there is still an issue.

So Danny then summarizes again, basically, all the search engines are doing different things. But this session is about the search engines working together. Randfish, said he is not cool with them all doing different things. One person stood up and said, if both are my sites, then allow me to denote so in the meta tags or in the robots.txt with the Yahoo! method.

Danny summarizes, we have different standards, a good chunk of us like how Yahoo is handling it now, but a good chunk wants to be able to specify the URL that should be listed in the search engine results. Clarity; give the Webmaster a way to define the URL they want anything listed.

DavidN looks at Google.com results for san francisco giants and shows that both redirected URLs are listed. He says that I can throw all 10 of my domains there and dominate the SERPs. Yahoo! has the same issue. This will be fixed, Danny said.

Nacho adds, once you figure out the domain you want listed, what information (link pop, age, etc.) flows through the the destination URL.

Some guy in the back adds there are legal issues why I might want to remove the URL from the search engines. So true.

Topic Two:

Title & Descriptions Management

Google dynamically created titles and then used some ODP directory titles sometimes, Yahoo! used the Y! directory and then stopped --- same with the description. Danny is being very very funny today, he goes through the various ways it is handled and he chatters incredibly fast to make a point. He brings up a forum thread, thread id=5759, the "Proposed Search Engine Standard for Titles & Descriptions" thread (see the poll there). Issue is, many pages have no title - so what do you do there? What do you do when a "created by adobe go live" in the title? What do you do when you have a CMS that inserts "Title Goes Here"? This is what should be listed in the SERPs? The search engines do not want it. The searchers do not want it. Do you?

Tim Mayer from Yahoo up first. The current behavior at Yahoo: (1) Feed titles and descriptions, (2) Yahoo! Directory descriptions, (3) Best match to query between contextual abstracts (on page) and meta title and meta description (on page), (4) If we cannot generate anything they use the ODP (implemented 1.5 years ago) or anchor text for the title. Abstract challenges; sites don't provide titles, sites use the same titles and descriptions for every page, meta tag T&Ds are not query specific, many sites over optimize their T&Ds and it does not accurately describe the page's content and different types of abstracts are appropriate for different types of queries (e.g. navigation versus informational). Going forward, Yahoo! will take all these different inputs and decide which is best based on user experience.

Rahul Lahiri from Ask Jeeves is up. If the page has a title, they use that one. If it does not, that is when they look elsewhere. They look at ODP, then they create a title from the text in the page (query words and content). The description, they look at ODP description and if the query term is in there, they will use the ODP description. If not, they will use the content of the page to build a description. Ask Jeeves prefers a single snippet over a longer one (like Google & Yahoo) if the query term is short, if its a longer query term they will try to match all the keywords in one or more snippets for the description.

Matt Cutts from Google is now up. He says all search engines want to show the most relevant listings title and snippets in the SERPs. When Google added the cache, people loved how you highlighted the keywords in that cache page. Matt hates "your browser does not support frames" as a snippet, so they will do what ever they can do avoid showing those snippets. A real issue with meta tags, you can not trust what people say. They have been doing a lot more experiments with the snippets. He said they tried and try things every day and test user experience. He said it will be time until you see standardization.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 8:17 PM Comments (1)

Ad Reps: Friend or Foe? - How to Handle Situations with Search Engines Going Direct to Your Clients

Some search marketing firms have had search engine reps try to snag accounts away from them. Some of these attempts can be fought off if you know how to state your case. This session explores those issues and some the issues affecting the situation. There seems to be very few people in this session for one reason or another I am not sure.

Danny Sullivan is moderating this session and starts with explaining why they held this session. He says firms are getting concerned about this and some issues needed to be explored.

Ryan Lash from Infuse Creative was up first and is going to go over some of the issues they have seen and their experiences. The landscape has changed over the last few years. Back in the good ole days, they did search media buying. They were offered net rates on this media and play broker with the accounts. They did work with Looksmart, Alta Vista and other engines. SEO was basic and pure optimization. They also worked with sales channel conducting direct sales reps. Today some of the main direct sales reps are Google advertising sales, and Yahoo search marketing sales. He says some reps are commission driven. Commission driven sales tactics are often what fuels these reps. They have reps admit to data mine their client accounts. They have direct client communication with the reps.

They put up an example about a major automotive manufacturer. They finally got to try a PPC campaign. Google got wind of this and contacted the firm directly. They declined to work with Google. Google provided free SEO consulting directly to client. They lost SEO engagement. The Yahoo side hasn’t been as aggressive. YSM direct sales channel offered to “Help”. YSM direct sales channel admitted to “downloading” campaign data. YSM continued to pursue independently the client. Ryan has some tips to combating the reps. On the SEM side, do not enable client communications with direct sales channels. Only work with agency channels and continue to improve you value proposition. For SEO’s they will have to continue to improve their value proposition.

Mikkel Svendsen from RedZone starts with talking about a client example of the situation and what is going on. He says there are a lot of good people at the engines and they understand what our business is. The Scandinavian Case. It was a large local Scandinavia SEO/SEM agency. Found applies for Adwords accreditation. Pass the exam and receive the official approval after the 90 days. The Agency signs a deal with large Scandinavian client. Google tells them they can’t have the client. Google sales team make is very clear that they consider Adwords advertiser to be their clients – not the agency’s. Do we have a deal or not? Google’s Scandinavian team told the Agency. The accreditation is worthless!

What they learned about the Scandinavian deal. Google is more of a competitor than a partner. Partnering up with Google increase your risk of loosing clients. Never tell Google about new prospects before you have a signed deal. Educate your clients well. Explain what you can do for them that Google just wont (or can’t) do. Recommend transfer of budgets to other PPC engines when that is best. Recommend transfer of budgets to organic SEO – when that is best. Optimize based on experience across all search channels and programs. Utilize external budgeting, tracking, and optimization tools rather internal. Track fraudulent behavior patterns and collect independent evidence. Utilize “black hat PPC” if that’s what the client wants. In any case, be sure to add some real value and show it.

He discusses the two main problems. 1. Channel separation. The engines have to decide if we, the search marketers are partners or competitors. 2. Managing people. It is not enough to have good policies if the people on the ground are running wild.

Misty Locke starts by saying how the engines can take clients out treat them nicely and then the client comes back saying we want that from the agency. What she says about the reps. The reps are pushy. They don’t do their homework. Don’t keep us in the loop while talking to the client. Not up to date with industry. Not interested in relation. Work on 100 accounts at a time. You say one thing and then do something else. We never work with the same rep more than a few months. What the ads reps say about us. They don’t provide enough information. They don’t attend meeting. They are difficult to deal with.

So how do you work together and what the vendor needs to know. We can work together. If we win if you win. Client goals come first. Yours second. Client goals are paramount and we need you to understand this. Keeping us out of the loop does not work for YOU, US, and the client. We know you have to grow the account. We are not out to stop their growth there are things you don’t know. If we partner, then PARTNER. Don’t take me out to dinner, don’t wine and dine me. Send research/product releases before: clients, press, before I have to call you.

What the agencies need to know. Treat them like partners and not like an information source. Okay, I am no fool. I know this hard to swallow. Limit & Control, but take steps. There are good reps out there just as there are good agencies. The client goals are important to them as well. Share enough information about the campaign and goals. Remember agencies you work for the client. Do your job and be their partner. It is your job to work and manage the relationship with AdReps – this is why you are paid. You clients goals come first. Your vendors second. Vendors have to feed their children too. Very enjoyable presentation with some comedy as well on the situation.

Stacy Williams just came into the panel and she talks how they have had trouble with working with the engines. She talks about her client Turner Broadcasting and how they started to pick up business with some of their branches. She says Google and Yahoo started to get wind of this. A Yahoo rep approached them about switching reps to go to Diamond level. They said they would like to bring in Turner Broadcasting along with her company. If she didn't want to, then her rep said his boss would probably force him to go around them, although he said that he personally wouldn’t want to do that. She was really shocked to say the least. Google did the same thing but was less forthcoming. They want the client whether or not the agency is included. She says she had an epiphany that she understand where the engines are coming from but at the same time she knows this could be a great opportunity for their firm. She says the bottom line is that if they can’t justify their existence then she doesn’t need to be there.

Her three wishes for ad reps. 1. When you call an agency and you say you want to help them. I wish you would mean to help. She doesn’t want to breathe down their next and try to sell for them. 2. Don’t treat me schizophrenically, you want to work with one client and but not the other 19 which outspend the one client. 3. Search engines don’t recognize that we work for them and with them. Search engines need to take care of the agencies.

Dana Todd talks about her experience which has been since the print days. She says we built this industry and we convinced the client that they needed this advertising. How dare they try to go around us. She says that agencies are more efficient. Search engines feed us that they are better than TV. There is more cash for search engines if the thing is inefficient. They say be like inefficient TV because it makes us more money.

We go into question and answer. Mikkel says that Google didn’t do due diligence about hiring people. Google has been flashing around saying they can take away their business. Overture was an example of this, by taking clients from SEM firms, and then going back to give them back as they couldn’t handle them all. Misty comes in an says her problem is not Google, its Yahoo. They don’t know what they are doing, she says she has 45 reps and has to email them all. Once that happens nobody knows what’s going on.
Mikkel states that when they reviewed the terms of service, it said that the client has the right to gain access to their account at any time.

This session had a lot of fired up comments and passion for the situation. My favorite session of the day so far.

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 6:39 PM Comments (2)

Landing Page Testing & Tuning

Moderator for this session is Allan Dick. There are three speakers, Tim Ash, James Roche and Scott Miller. There is new technology being used in this session by Offermatica where the presenter asks questions, and we in the audience reply via a radio keypad and the responses are shown up on the projector in real time, pretty cool.

First up is Tim Ash from SiteTuners.com. Why should I tune? CPA = CPC/CR, the CPC is rising 2% or so per month. The only thing you can control is your CR, conversion rate. Your marketing program ROI is 25% How much do your profits improve if you increase conversion rate by 10%? Your profits would increase by 50%. What should I tune? price of your product or service, or the landing pages with trackable actions (lead form, buy, etc.). Price Tuning Basics; At the low end of your price, you will have low margins, at the high end you have no buyers, where is that profit sweet spot (somewhere in the middle)? They test a few prices and then build a model to predict the sweet spot for your prices. Common Tuning Elements; headline, page layout, nav, color scheme, offers, form layout, button text, sales copy, special offers, call to action, there are no universal truths. They test each and every component this of this, they tested 13 things, with 42 different values - 2+ million Web site variations. How Do I tune? A/B split testing, multivariate analysis and sitetuners tuning engine. A/B Testing; test one variable at a time, send equal traffic to all versions, very simple to implement. Multivariate analysis; test several variables at once, tries to predict best setting for each variable. Sitetuners tuning engine; proprietary math for internet marketing, designed for large tests, handles complex interactions. Outsourcing Considerations; Size of test, Services offered (tools, consulting, and hands-off), Business Model (rent tools, ppf, etc.). What Mistakes Should I Avoid? (1) Ignoring your baselines, always devote some bandwidth to your current version, measure relative to the baseline, not absolute to baseline. (2) Not collecting enough data (do not make decisions based on too little data, understand basic error bars, confidence intervals). (3) Not considering delayed conversions. (4) Assuming That Testing Has No Costs. (5) Ignore Complex Interactions.

Scott Miller from Verster is now up to give case studies. Test: Link Text; Objective: Increase Clickthroughs. They tested three different link texts. The best link text option was "Learn More", believe it or not. Next example was wilsonweb.com, objective is to improve stickiness, and tested inclusion of sitepal avatar. Did the sitepal Avatar help? People in audience voted, 46% it helped, but the actual result was true, it did help. This is kind of fun. DVD Lead Generation system, PPC Campaigns, Object is for a DVD request, and they tested copy test. One is a personalized version, and the other was an institutional version. Most in the audience said it was personalized version, but the institutional version actually won (last year the same study went the other way). Take always; even small changes can help, conversion lift can come from unexpected places, retest periodically - results do change, more examples and insight at vertster.com/blog/

James Roche from Offermatica is the last one up. They do dynamic marketing and landing page optimization. They took a complicated statistical analysis and made it easy to provide to marketers. He explained that they did this in two weeks for Allan Dick's site Vintage Tub. Test 1: Category Landing Page Optimization. Objective: Increase conversion and gross sales. Approach: Strengthen category imagery, clarify subcategory navigation, reinforce "free shipping." They were not able to touch the text, they actually did deploy a form of cloaking on this site. They segmented out three sections of the page to overlay on the page. They then tested the two against each other. The new version was more visual and more promotional. Which won? The new won worked. Which element contributed the most? 1. free shipping, 2. link text or 3. free shipping? Free shipping was the major attribute, picture did help, links did not do much. They saw a 60% lift with this test. Takeaways; reinforce your promotion, review keyword-density strategies vs conversion impact and plan for periodic champion / challenger testing. Test 2: Page Setup: Objective increase purchase intent, Approach, strengthen benefit images. This case they did not do a multivariate test, they did an A/B test. They developed 4 stories, 4 alternatives to the content they had at the top. The conversion was did they click in deeper. The baby just beat out the simple tub version. The hide from your kids version lost out to the indulge yourself version. Overall the one that won was the default version. Takeaways; reinforce your promo, consider splitting traffic by segment and testing, and dramatic changes should be tested iteratively. Testing Roadmap; retest a/c/d for RPV, restest A/C/D by source and new/return, strengthen "free shipping" message on alternative versions, test integration of link density and branding options. Key Features / Differentiators; All-web marketer interface (upload content, plan and run tests - advanced stats without a PhD), campaign (not just page) testing & optimization (multi page, multi session, multiple point conversion), Customer segment targeting (target to source, category, email, geo), Analytics & Real Time Reporting (instant response, integration with coremetrics).

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 6:14 PM Comments (0)

Link Building Basics

Moderator: Detlev Johnson

Intro: The one thing that you can do with your own site is content and text to help gain rankings, but link building takes a slightly different approach. Can have a tremendous effect, example of PageRank that gave rise to people persuing links “obsessively.” Link buidling can be legitimate and work, but it can also be less than so. Unfortunately Eric Ward is caught in Atlanta and will not be here.

Mike Grehan - Smart Interactive Ltd.
Feels that UK is one step behind US in SEO and Canada is one step behind UK. Shares a little perspective from the meeting he has a few weeks ago in San Jose with the Yahoo engineers regarding the perspective from the outside looking-in about SEO. One of things very important is to understand how the SE’s and their crawlers rank documents. Created a great schematic that is now being used by SE’s to describe the process. Gave a short history of ranking algorithms. In the beginning Brian Pinkerton created WebCrawler and designed a method of ranking. When a SE builds an inverted index, it first analyses all the words that appear on the pages by indexing each one. Vector space model, term weight pair: a page has a weighted list of terms, and a term has a weighted list of pages. This meant that rank could be manipulated by using a term more often. Thus the rise of SE spamming. This caused Brian to fade into the background.

Then John Kleinberg tackled the abundance problem and “bestowed upon us the hub and the authority.” Google takes the idea and wraps it with Markov Chain to create PageRank, and make it possible for spammers to get on the top by manipulating links. Asks now when people want to rank first: why should you be? Tells everyone that under one chair there is a sticky note with that question and he wants that person to stand up and say why should their page rank first. Turns out he was kidding - he likes to see the look of terror on people’s faces. (laughs)

Hyperlink analysis makes two assumptions: Link from A to B is a vote for the other. Second assumption is that these are related topics. Co-citation helps to determine classification and categorization. C to A and C to B, but A and B do not link. Even though they do not link together, there is a connection. In order to reverse engineer an algorithm you have to have this kind of data, which is owned by Google and others. Hubs and authorities show that some links are worth more than others (Side note from Mike: many people suffer from GAS at SES conferences, they need help…GAS stands for Google Anxiety Syndrome, what did you think he was talking about? Laughs)

Cyber communities: which do you belong to? You do not want links from bad communities or links that are not from your community. An example would be 100,000 communities from 40 million sites in japan.

Top ten important parts about linking:
1. Quality not quantity
2. Anchor text in links
3. SE’s have already decided who is important, so you can use their info to get linking partners.
4. Don’t dilute quality content by trying to spread it all over the site if not needed. Create an authoritative page that people will want to link to. This increases links to that page based on different reasons/content that others want to link-to on the same page.
5. Affiliate program can bring lots of traffic and sales, but can cause havoc in linking strategy.
6. Do be choosey about whom to link to. “If it’s free, it’s probably crap.”
7. Faking linkage data by creating 5000 links from your own fake domains. This will work initially, but then SE’s will see that no links go to those.
8. Asking for a link is a business process like anything else.
9. Acquiring links is time consuming, and the use of software doesn’t necessarily guarantee that the links will be “good.” Needs to be personalized.
10. Instead of trying to be Yahoo and create a directory, you should concentrate on creation of good content.


Debra O’Neil-Mastaler - Alliance Link

Linking reminds her of the Overtstock.com ad that says “it’s all about the ‘O.’” In this case “it’s all about the ‘A’,’ which means anchor text.

Linking Myths and Mistakes
Reciprocal linking is bad - False. Allows you to place targeted kw anchor text links on pages/sites of your choice. However, you need to have diversified links and not use ONLY reciprocal links. Need to stay in community. Don’t use e-mail templates to gain them, personalize! Once again, quality over quantity. Check to make sure link is on the site you agreed to exchange with and not on a 3rd party site. Be sure to use anchor text. Don’t email sites not already swapping. Add a “how to swap links” page to help new partners. Think outside the box when looking for link partners. Great success: agrees to swap ad space in newsletters or blogs; the best part about this is that it becomes archived. Links that age are thought to be more valuable.

Non -reciprocal out-bounds are bad- False. Engines analyze sites by their inbound and outbound links. Helps establish you site as an authority or hub. No site is an island, only inbound may raise flags. This WILL NOT “leak PageRank.” Try to link to a site that mentions you.

DMOZ greater weight - Unlikely, but it is a very credible link.

PR 3 or above links only count - False. Google knows about all of them, but will not necessarily show them. Google simply chooses to not display all inbound links. Nothing more than that.

Incoming links from bad sites will hurt- False. You cannot be held accountable by who links to you. Try to secure links from authority sites using targeted anchor text.

Need lots of links to rank well - False

Debra then talks about Eric’s presentation:
Links come in all shapes ands sizes. , just like websites. A quality links can mean different things for different sites. Shows szapos.com, not much text, but still ranks consistently Number one. They pay for links, get links in blogs (that they found because someone mentioned them and went to them to ask for a link), press releases, editorial links, passively obtained organic links.

If you wanted to promote something short-term, use things like discussion groups (mostly a powerful traffic driver, some do not have links that count), private fan links, Imdb Page that reporters use. Mix links to make sure they don’t all come from the same IP block, and not all from .edu‘s or .gov‘s, for example.(Erics’ presentation and examples can be found at : http://netpost.com/ses/link_building_basics.html) Best to be well=rounded in anything in life, link building is no different.


Q&A

“Are blogs more spider able than forums, or less? Is one more helpful than others?”

M: Not necessarily, it depends how the forum or blog is structured. Also in blogs and forums there is sometimes not enough text to (contextually) qualify the link.

Debra: Agrees, the traffic is probably the most important part of getting a link in a popular forum or blog.

Detlev: Some use the tag which doesn’t allow spiders to index links.

“Are link farms bad?”
M: Yes if a site just give away links to anyone from anyone in any community.

D: Check for links inbound to site, and use PageRank as an indicator of popularity. There’s only about 35-40 good “general directories” and the rest are niche.

Detlev: You are not going to get credit from a link that is not indexed, use a search to see if the directory/site is indexed first. Teoma.com does break out authorities and hubs nicely. Look for “links from resources and enthusiasts” to find hubs.

“How effective are software tools to automatically gain links?” Are they useful?

Detlev: Can they get you kicked-off? Google even spells out do not use webpositiongold to run links, because they do not have the authority.

D: agrees: if they do not have an API, you can have problems and get banned due to automated queries.

M: If it brought in 5,000 candidates while you were asleep, you still have to go through them manually.

“If a site doesn’t have PageRank, but has a high Alexa, should it be considered?”

M: Let me tell you something: Google DOES NOT use PageRank, it’s a myth. It’s green fairy dust.

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 3:52 PM Comments (4)

Should You Chase The Algorithm?

I am sorry, but I simply could not miss this session, so you will get my coverage as well as Ben's on this single session. On the panel, moderated by Danny Sullivan, are Greg Boser, Jill Whalen, Mikkel Svendsen, Shari Thurow, David Naylor and Jeff Watts. This is kind of a white hat - black hat issue, but this session is more about what should I do with my resources.

Jeff Watts from National Instruments will give a quick intro. They think of the search problem as something that can be represented on a graph, Y axis is better rankings, X axis is time. If all things are equal for them, it does not mean all things are equal for his competitors. Those who reverse engineer the algorithm, he shows how they have a short period of time where they rank above you. But at the same time they have a constant rankings. They use the concept of "smarter content processes" to help increase and stabilize rankings. Web search is like a black box, a query comes in and the relevant content comes out. In the future your success to use blackhat tactics will not be as achievable.

David Naylor, DaveN SEW/WMW mod, for seven years they have chanced the algorithm and catches it every day. If you dont have the skills of writing content like Danny or us, he said you need other skills (programming skills). Build something that is totally focused for one purpose, to rank number one. He said if you have any questions about chasing the algo, he will answer them honestly.

Shari Thurow from Grantistic Designs, starts off saying she is someone with programming skills who chooses to write content. Is there such thing as natural SEO? She calls these SEOs "Algoholic SEOs", with them the goal is positioning, exploit web search engines, not look at the big picture, and meet partial business goals, with a poor search experience. On the flip side, you have "Usability Experts" are goal conversions, confused about search engines, not look at the big picture, balance business and users. She likes to think of the balance between the two is "natural" search optimization, where the goals are to increase quality traffic, page views, conversions and so on, search optimization is part of design, it is the big picture approach. She showed a small case study, page views increased 110%, page views per visitor increased 38%, web search engine referrals increased 350% - just by making the site more query friendly and more browser friendly. So use your resources this way.

Mikkel Svendsen was next up, and he said he is a Algoholic. In his opinion, he feels broad based reversed engineering is dead now. Search engines are evolving. He monitors, research and study overall trends in se algorithms, he produces large number of sites and pages and monitor for results, he zooms in on specific verticals and competitors, and for the most sites outside the engine language all you need is basic SEO skills. If you throw enough direct on the wall, some is bound to stick.

Jill Whalen, who is no longer referred to a while hat. But she doesn't know where that came from. She agrees with what Mikkel said, but we need to step back and discuss what is meant by algorithm chasing. It doesnt mean you a spammer or black hat if you chase the algorithm. When you run into problems and if you look at your rankings everyday, and you go up or down, it doesn't always mean something. You can't read into that too much. It will drive yourself crazy. It is very difficult to tell cause and effect these days.

Greg Boser is the last one up, from WebGuerrilla. He says he is also an Algoholic. He said he has been for a long time. In the old days it was easy to do very well. Much of this is hit or miss. They know stuff that worked well for several years. They have clients that go both the white hat side and the black hat side. So he plays on both sides of the fence. The aggressive stuff helps you find things for the white side stuff as well. In this day and age its a lot different, its not as exciting and mathematic as it once was. But don't be afraid to go down that road. He said the algo chasers do care about conversions, its not true that they don't.

Q & A:
Q: He noticed that when Yahoo! & MSN focused on search, they pretty much copied Google. How did they do it?
A: Danny said that the primary use for rankings is link popularity, but there is little overlap in search results. Search engine results are really not the same. But the quality is overall better.
Mikkel said I dont think Yahoo! copied Google. He said they all copied earlier search engines like Fast and AltaVista. He said they are all copy cats.
Greg said Google was not the first company to analyze links. He said what you will see, the real differences are the amount of filters to patch these holes (MSN has the fewest, since they are the newest).
Jill said they all want the same thing, the most relevant results.
David said he noticed the biggest difference is that Google is more towards informational, and Yahoo is more towards purchase. He said Yahoo! has a lot to worry about since they increased their index size.

Q: Question for Greg, you seem to be neutral, you have clients that go both way, do you find that there is a distinguishing factor between the b2b versions b2c?
A: He said there is a lot of aggressive stuff going on in the b2b stuff. Thomas Register did some very aggressive stuff in the past. He said also in the auto space, you do a search and you get different sites from the same one company.
Shari said she turned in Thomas B2B and they have not got back in. She said Thomas is not always on the up and up.
Greg said wait for version two.
Shari responded wait until I get my hands on to it.

Q: Where do you get more information about the competitors competing in your industry? The industry is Real Estate California.
A: Greg said you just need to buy tons and tons of links. He said some of the most crafty link building schemes was in the real estate business.
Mikkel said the keyword list in that market is the same, there is very little niche keywords undiscovered. Try innovative ways to build unique content (forums, blogs, other sources).
David said that if its one client its easy, just build up that client. But if you have several clients, what he does is build his own site and then distribute leads on a percentage basis to the various clients.

Q: An online retailer asks about one big site versus multiple sites.
A: Danny said if it was working before, dont change it.
Greg said he likes to break up content into multiple sites. That is why many sites use subdomain structures.
David said I would be real careful with subdomains.

Q: Five items in the algo we should focus on?
A: Greg said, links; internal and external and anchor text. content and titles.
Jill said it depends on the site, its not a formula. Do keyword research, choose three or so for every page, make sure you write content around phrases, use them in titles, and use them in links.
Mikkel said you need to look at it in "site dynamics" the site needs to grow, content growth, keyword growth, link growth.
Shari said use words and phrases people search on, then tell them what you need them to do and you need the link component, and the last part is link development.
David jokingly said he agrees totally with Shari. He said you need internal links, external links and in bound links. If you link out to good places, that is good. Don't be afraid to link out.
Jeff Watts said he would add to think about adding value to the customer. When linking out, think, does it add value.

Q: Recent Google patent, your thoughts?
A: DavidN said its a "Smoke Screen" and everyone else agrees.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 3:48 PM Comments (2)

Ad Management: Do Humans matter?

Moderated by Danny Sullivan

Intro remarks: Speaks about local targeting, contextual targeting, and DYI. Many portals out there and more coming. MSN says they will be able to target people by demographics. Is there a role for the humans in this process?

Chris Zaharias - Efficient Frontier:
Using algorithms from wall street to adapt to PPC management. Trends: Multiple SE’s - more to manage, more data; KW inflation - optimizing tail becomes crucial; complexity; scarcity of staff - knowledge must be institutionalized; disparate data sources - data must be integrated; SEM matters! - forecasts must exist and be met. Humans do matter, but because of all these factors technology matters more and needs to matter more in the future. You cannot handle everything manually. Rules based tools: cannot address all markets fully address tail, but can track and act on data, but done too infrequently. Cant staff SEM skills fast enough. Can integrate data and can forecast & provide results, but volume/market left on the table

Human rules based approach makes decisions on individual kws vs. considering effect on other choices. Activities divided into three segments: human-only, human tech -aided, and tech only. Human activities include SEM goals, review and analysis, creatives and landing pages, search engine setup .

Human assisted by technology activities: adjust parameters, launch, simulations, performance analytics, prune kws, sync.

Technology only: paid search optimization.

Core point: close loop process continuously delivering against the goals combines all the above good chart on human/technology process modal. Todays’ search is mostly smart people with few tools in need of technology to help them scale.

Kevin Lee - Dit-it.com:
Agrees on more things than disagree. Two kinds of marketers at top of paid search results: brilliant marketers and lunatics. Success means you have to decide how to be brilliant or how to deal w/total lunatics.

Tech facilitates through automation of task, increasing ability to be a “totally friggin brilliant marketer” or a “rampant raging total lunatic on steroids.” Tech is a tool that in the wrong hands can hurt you and others. Why need killer tech? Multitude of simultaneous choices, competitive reactions, diff was of buying same kw (geo, match type, daypart/day of week, engine syndication network / contextual), kw volumes differ, kw volatility, kw volume. Why need killer strategy? Allows you to afford highest pos you can. Everyone is fighting for top for good reason: scale comes with position but some times can be problematic.

To maximize profit you must:
Buy best clicks firsyt, keep buying cliks, etc…
Strategy and tech alone still don’t deliver max results, you need analytics as well.. Strategy analytics and technology together form perfect storm to create multiplier effect to continuously improve ROI or profitability of campaign.

Joshua Stylman - Reprise Media:
Advises that if an SEM you are considering does not have technology in their dan, run as fast as possible. Tried to manually plan search campaigns and found it to be impossible. Now largely automated, but humans still most important. Human capital is most defensible part of their business in order to deliver best practices. Ultimately they will continue to innovate,. Almost everyone’s first question is “what do you do for bid management? Compares search with so many levers to manage various campaigns to Starbuck promotion describing 10,000 ways to order a latte. All other variables can impact your bid price, but bid price cannot impact other variables. Workflow: how to we move production process through the market? Logical creation of systematic methods to do so. Use of API’s is used by most advanced SEM’s. let robots what they do best, and humans do what they do best.. A balance required, as mentioned by others.

Mike Sack- Inceptor, Inc.:
Quotes Battlestar Galactica “Humans created the robots.” Bid management is truly a symbiotic relationship. You cannot let the tech turn on you like the cylons.

PPC Management function: who wins each factor, humans or technology?

Kw generation: T
Kw selection: H -optimization process begins here
Kw stemming: H -due to our ability to understand linguistics
Creative & creative optimization: H - tech can write ads, but they are bad
Bid updates: T -mundane “c-level” task is simple, so enjoyed by lazy marketers
Bid analysis: T - most humans cannot see more than tree layers deep in a pattern. Most people without training could count maybe through one or two decks in black jack, but tech can count through 20,000 layers
Bid optimization: T

Falls squarely in the middle, like the Berlin wall between communism and capitalism. Cows graze, people shouldn’t. Cows hang out in the field and chomp on grass, people have a higher calling. Let the technology do the grazing.


Sara Holoubek, icrossing.

Most SEMs must use tech. We wouldn’t be here w/out. Create marketing programs, access them and manage/report using tech. Would we be here if not for humans? Real live humans do the searches. Search and the shiny hammer” Hiring the carpenter with the best hammer will not guarantee best shelf. Tools are not talent - a good carpenter will have both. Eventually tech will become a commodity. Right now everyone is being measured by shiny hammer, soon SEM’s will be evaluate the talent to both wield the tool.

Why humans matter? Kw’s are human interests - Paris or Paris Hilton? People must set the rules, machine cannot tell you why a rule is not working. Cannot count for changes in taste with technology. Only human intellect can identify root cause of performance- Google complexity? Would you allow a machine to adjust…your TV spend? Your Print spend? Your messaging? Any CEO would “flip out” if told that tech would manage these. You are only as good as your team. The team is what drives the ROI and results.


Q&A/Comments

Chris; People are important, but work must be automated on seetign business goals, because you never know when staff will jump ship.

Joshua: We are so obsessed with process that we have an 800 page internal manual about how to manage PPC. Process will never leave company even though people will.

Michael: Having a good tool may not make you a good carpenter, but having the right ool does make you better.

Kevin Lee: Search is really the first media where really valuable media is being auctioned off in real time. This is a new and constantly evolving marketplace. Creates new level of pressure because we do not know what is going to happen tomorrow as easily as with other media. Auction based media may evolve far beyond search. Likes Sara’s analogy, but depends on the need. For example if you have the sniffles, you will use most any doctor, but if you need heart surgery you are going to seek greater expertise. Depending on your needs, you may be able to “get away” with a less qualified person or even perform SEM yourself.

Q: (From Nacho) You mentioned commoditizing the market. Will bid management tools price drop in a way to reflect that it is a commodity?

J: Bets that yes, the price will drop. May eventually be given away as a value add.

C: Look at Wall Street, they continue to spend billions of dollars to allow traders to do job better than next person.

S: what comes next? What will the cost be for that?

K: you get what you pay for, as in almost any other market.

M: you can hire programmers in India for example, the skill is commodities, but the instructions are not. Cannot ignore offline. There is a land rush going on now in order to gain clients. May not agree that you get what you pay for, because aggressive pricing doesn’t necessarily reflect quality of tool, but market factor based on client acquisition.

Q: What are thoughts about using search for branding versus use for ROI?

K: Branding metrics are being evaluated constantly, search and branding do fit well together because other media does result in search behavior, more and more often. Google introducing site targeting is clearly an attempt to give people the ability to go after well-branded sites for exposure.

C: Good online brands such as Expedia, Travelocity, ebay, etc. the reason that they became brands in the first place was because they were all massive adopters of paid search when it first came out.

S: Who’s dollars are paying for search? The marketing dept. We need to explain better to them the value of the media as a branding tool.

Danny: what are the metrics? Do you integrate them into ad manageemtn tool? S: the bar is higher for us because it can be, we need to speak to other marketers in their language.

M: Everything is abranding opportunity. Branding is get out your checkbook and don’t expect to measure ROI, even in search. Not a matter of whether or not you can brand, but if it can be measured?


posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 2:15 PM Comments (0)

Fun with Dynamic Sites

Moderator Detlev Johnson.

Mikkel Svendsen was up first, and I was a bit late, sorry Mikkel. What is not a problem with dynamic sites? Storing content in a database is not a problem. Question-marks are not a problem in itself, but it is an identifier to the search engines to spot a dynamic site that is template driven. SSI are not a problem in itself. Extension names are also not a problem (i.e. php, asp, cfm, .mikkel). Indexing Barriers; long and ugly URLs, duplicate content (session IDs, click IDs, time stamped URLs), spider traps (infinite loops), server downtime or slow responses. Some indirect related issues include; required support of cookies, javascripts, flash and so on. GEO-targeting and personalization is an indirectly related indexing barrier as well. Form based (post method) based navigation. Issues not related at all with dynamic sites, robot.txt issues, frames issues, password protected pages and so on all have nothing to do with dynamic site issues. Solutions that Work; many solutions are available, there are always more then one solution out there. The best strategy is to first see if you can fix your current system, that is the best. If that is not possible then move into a "bridge layer" like rewrite, if all fails, then replicate the content. Mikkel's favorite fix is the one-parameter web site. Normal dynamic URls contain all the necessary information in variables, you can just use one parameter and shows how the id matches up with the database. Tips and Tricks for Dynamic Sites; Automated Titles and META-tags based on existing database fields, Content related cross linking using a category or subject database, Dynamic headlines based on referring queries (works well for pages that rank well for many different terms), RSS feeds, Site Maps (google xml sitemaps), and "Spider Identification" (cloaking, personalization and geo-targeting).

Laura Thieme from Bizresearch is now up on the panel. She will cover Site Optimization, Data Feeds, and Paid Inclusion Programs. Are question marks ok to have in a URL? Yes it is ok, & are ok, and multiple variables are ok now. How do you optimize a dynamic site? Provide benchmarks in a ranking report, then do some traditional home page optimization, dynamic category, subs, product levels, dynamic meta tag generation, consider rewriting URLs if more then three variables, review log file spider reports & update robot.txt files as needed and watch rankings improve. Expand these now...Provide Benchmark; review URL structure, Review Google & AOL index, Review Yahoo, MSN, and Ask index. The Google index, they use site:www.site.com site.com; review number of pages indexed now, and it is amazing how this can improve positive or negative. She noted the index count for dynamic sites increase and decrease with Google at any point (very true). She then brought up a slide comparing some large sites and the number of pages indexed at Google vs. Yahoo vs. MSN. URL Rewrites, no rewrite tools are required, all custom rewrite programs. Problems: URLs had 6 or more parameters. Solution: Remove unnecessary and unused parameters from the URL, avoid passing redundant parameters, remove parameters that do not directly affect the content pages, create custom URL rewrites. One of the best things you can do is optimize the homepage by creating text links, text dynamically from generated categories, client administrates categories from web based admin tool and so on. Dynamically Generate Metatags; heading tags, description tags, titles, metatags and so on. Miva Merchant Indexing Problems? Not getting indexed, talk to her. Optimizing category pages, market multiple items on one page, optimize pages, add text links the search engines can follow, dynamically created metatags using products. Then optimize down to the product level; same deal as on the category pages. Spider Log File Analysis; review log files for spiders, she likes the ClickTracks Web analytics software for this. Creating Data Feeds; retailers:: shopping.com, froogle, etc. She has a big data feed matrix which I can't type here. Data Feed Observations; every feed is unique, so dont assume spider programs will get and understand it. Editing Data Feeds; cant expect to create data feed, automate, upload and be done, ongoing data feed maintenance is still required. Well optimize title and description of the data feed and the source (database). Paid Inclusion; its very easy to do with a dynamic site.

Jake Baillie from TrueLocal to discuss rewrite rules. Rewrite rules are regular expression based statement that tells a web server to do something. Most common use is when you map virtual URLs with a physical resource. Essentially, provides a fast and consistent way to manage URLs. Be careful with duplicate content issues and infinite loops. He then goes over "Tasty Recipes" ; moving a folder from old location to new one, 301 redirect. Serving content transparently, shortening URLs for search engines. Deny Access to an IP, prevents serving to a particular IP. Serve different content to a UA/IP, he shows how you cloak. Serve image based upon referrer, preventing image theft. Serve different content based upon time of day. Dirty lies; dropdowns can be a downer; search engines can read but not parse JavaScript, search engines will not post forms, search engines cant deal with any sort of dynamic interactivity when it comes to usual elements. If you want to use dropdowns, go with CSS solutions. Remember the basics; most search engines are actually good at indexing, most errors are silly, if all else fails (validate your code, check robot.txt, check that links are well formed, check for disallowed characters). Nosey competitors; unnatural traffic; guess what; people who type in "Allinachor" in Google are not your target visitors, people who type in "link" in google are not target visitors, people who come through the cache are not normal users. People coming from the same search 20 times in 2 minutes is not a target visitor, people who come in from whois.sc are not target visitors and so on. Track these people's referrers, you can cookie track along sites and you can track with graphics (it wont be 100% accurate). Serve these guys a 403 access forbidden, different page than everyone else, fun pictures to get them in trouble at work, own web sites, annoying them with MIDIs and WAV files, annoying infinite JavaScript popups, and the same thing as everyone else and just silently track them. Resources WMW forum92, httpd.apache.org, official documentation and URL Rewriting Guide.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 1:48 PM Comments (0)

RSS, Blogs & Search Marketing

I have attended this session last March in New York and been impressed with great information that is presented. Each of the speakers complement themselves well. This time around it appears the room is getting full with people, about half of which are business owners and the other half media.

Amanda Watlington from SearchingForProfit.com is up first and she asks some basic questions. Who is a blogger? Who uses RSS on other things besides blogs? What is a blog? Blogs are websites with content management systems that: support frequent updates. Present content in reverse chronological order, use simple no coding required templates. Support searchable archiving. Support social interaction through linking, comments, and tracking. She says that a blog without comments is just a website as there is not social interaction. There are 14 million blogs and counting. Blogging is being engrained into American internet life. Last year there was not as many people in this session. This year its grown. As for July 2005, 85,000 blogs where created daily. Worldwide there are 60 million blogs. 55% of people that setup blogs are posting 3 months later. 13% of blogs are updated weekly.

We need to play close attend to blogs. They are starting to take up space. Messages to SEMS from the blogosphere. Build links with blogs to improve site link popularity. Create high ranking keyword rich content using an easy to use blogging CMS. Monitor and manage the brand and its reputation across all media segments. Win with recent and relevant content. How do you win? You win with relevant content. Amanda has written a book on blogs. Its not blogs, its RSS see says. It should be powering some website visibility. RSS stands on three legs, RSS feeds, RSS Aggregators, RSS Readers.

What is an RSS feed? An example is thrown up, and she shows how easy it is to code an RSS feed. Step back and thing of how easy it is to add information to an RSS feed. Freed creation tools presents but there are tradeoffs. As you need more flexibility you will need to create a more custom script. Manage your feeds is important. Create, validate, disseminate, and eliminate is what you need to do to manage your feeds. She goes into talking about RSS readers. Amanda asks about how many people use RSS readers? About 25% of the hands are raised, quite a bit more than last year. RSS feeds the mix. RSS is not just for blogs, for example Amazon, NPR, and news sources. There are many uses for RSS such as affiliate communications. Syndicating your content on other sites. Other uses such as new product announcements, security alerts, product uses tops and articles, customer communications, press room, and career channel. What do us as search marketers need to think about? We need to write our content on RSS feeds that are meaningful. RSS is a proven driver of traffic. Measuring RSS results, such as circulation, viewer ship and so on. So why add RSS? You build stronger relationships with faster communication.

Stephan Spencer from Netconcepts started next with information about RSS as a “killer app”. It does get caught up with spam filters. There is web wide syndication. He gives an example of a site that is syndicating their content through RSS. This RSS feed is getting picked up by the search engines at the top of the listings. He provides some tips on RSS. You want to look at creative ways of delivering useful content. Think creatively. Think about RSS as a way to deliver content by category. A lot of blog software does support this. Give it away, provide full text and not just summaries. Watch out for SEO’s using your feed content as search engine fodder and hoarding the link juice (through href rel=nofollow added). MSN search provides the ability to subscribe to news results. Consumers can be keep up to date on deals. He gives the example of Marketingprofs, and ITconversations.com (great podcasts he recommends). Blog software like WordPress embeds podcasts when it finds links to mp3 files. Make it easy to subscribe. 1 click add to your favorite aggregator is best. Make your listings in the Yahoo! SERPS display the “Add to My Yahoo!” link. Signup for my Yahoo! to let yahoo know have updated your blog. You can use Pingomatic to ping many sites at once.

Be sure to track your subscriber behavior. Subscribers from user agent fields in log files. You can also track with reads from “web bugs” which is a 1 pixel gif that can record when people view you RSS feed. Click throughs are also good. Be sure to also personalize your content. This can shot you in the foot however. The best practice for users, subscribe form with interests tickboxes.
How to capture the link juice? Encourage links through RSS directories/engines submissions, trackbacks, and pings. Click track your links and pass the search juice. Use a 301 redirects, not 302, or the juice may not flow. Most ads and affiliate links suffer this fate. Warning: Feedburner and simplefeed use 302, not 301. He concludes with some great books, such as Unleash the Marketing & Publishing Power of RSS. This powerpoint can be downloaded at http://www.netconcepts.com/rss.ppt (thanks for the easy link).

Greg Jarboe from SEO-PR is a well known blog champion and he starts off by asking the bloggers in the audience which is rich yet? He says that blogs are catching on fast. The bad news is that blogs are catching on. Business week covered story says “Blogs will change your business”. Is the magazine right? Or is the cover story “the kiss of death?” He says that if its on a magazine, its passé and old news. He says you need to take your blog in a different direction.

How are you going to be successful? How many blogs are there? Over 11 million adults have blogs, 9% of internet users. Blog creators more likely to be men 57%, and young with 48% are under age of 30. They are broadband users, internet veterans, and relatively well off financially. There are 500,000 blog posts per day, which is about 5.8 posts a second. He asks who is picking up your content and when? You have to stand out with your blogs and understand the technical complexities of RSS. So why are people reading blogs. The common answer is that people want to get news they can’t get elsewhere. 51% of journalists use blogs regularly. 70% for work related tasks, 53% find story ideas, 43% to research and reference facts, 36% to find sources, and 33% to uncover breaking news or scandals. The news needs to be compelling, because as a blogger you are technically competing against the New York Times for readership. 32 million American adults read blogs which is about 25% of internet users.

What can we learn from? The midnight rider Paul Revere, the first blogger he says. The night he rode out that night, he spread the message to many towns. He didn’t make, but along the way he meet people who he passed on his message, which those people further spread it to other places. I think Greg is getting at that we need to spread our message. He then compares Paul Revere and William Dawes, in that Paul Revere knew how to reach opinion readers. Greg then goes into examples from someone who attended the session last march in New York. The guy who started a blog about Timeshares had great success talking about timeshares and exposing the market. He gives the example that when Hurricane Dennis hit, this timeshare blog had information on how it affected the timeshare market. It was news that you could only get there. The sites link popularity shot up and there was great increase in search rankings. Good example.

He ends saying that is not about having a blog, not about the content, it’s that the content has to be exceptional.

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 1:38 PM Comments (0)

Keynote Conversation with Ask Jeeves's Steve Berkowitz

Danny introduces Steve Berkowitz and thanks him for the wonderful party last night.

Danny asks that now that you have been acquired by IAC, what is coming next? We know about the PPC ads.

Steve answers that as we invest in technology and core products, we need to bring those products above the fold. They spent the last year figuring out how to financially make that possible. The IAC acquisition allowed them to bring the Teoma results about the fold. Barry Diller asked them how to grow market share, and they said, to make the user experience better. They have the opportunity to build out the synergy between the two company's with one focus, growing market share. IAC gives them a much better reach at advertisers. So now Ask can now focus on search, and IAC on advertising. You will see a big investment in marketing and building a brand and in building a better product through innovation (zoom, binoculars, and so on). They will hire more talent (Jim told me about one that they just hired who they are very excited about). He said he doesn't think there is a better marriage for the company then IAC.

Danny says Barry Diller created a 4th channel for them in the UK. Ask is like that fourth channel in search. How do you shake up this image of the past Ask Jeeves with the butler and the Q & A service?

Steve said that has always been a challenge for them. They did there first TV ad, they grew share by 20% this past year. That is impressive in relation to others. They found the brand has great appeal. And they are working with Barry to figure out what else they can do. They know the technology is great and they will continue to be great. They are focused on core search and are trying to deliver this message. IAC backing with talent and money will make this happen.

Danny said the flag ship brand is Ask Jeeves, will the name change?

Steve said they are doing a lot of research about this. There is very little chance they will not go with Ask or Jeeves because of the brand they built already. What you will see is the brand evolution, and not a complete revolution. You really need to be careful about such a brand name change, you will see a creative solution. The name change has not been made yet.

Danny said IAC has tons of brands out there already. Ask itself has additional brands. How might this change within the Ask Jeeves group?

Steve said he can't say for sure. He thinks what you will see from the company, a renewed commitment to the brand. They had to manage across a segment of issues. The people who use the toolbar love it, so that is a big brand. They have the portal side of the business, MyWay/iWon/Excite, are a big brand and people love it as well. He believes that iWon is a promotional platform, he feels iWon can be a real piece of glue in the IAC relationship to tie together the lending trees, ticket masters and so on of IAC brands. iWon will be a real growth driver for Ask Jeeves. Then they can focus on building the "Ask - Ask Jeeves" brand globally in 2006.

Danny said you mentioned the idea of the glue of tying the pieces together, you also talked about the portals all over the place. Many of these sites have walls where you can't find your way out of. How do you see this challenge?

Steve said it doesn't mean we cant leverage this content in Ask to the consumer. He said there is no wall, Barry Diller doesn't think this way. Barry says, look at these assets and we are the company that can bring them together, but only if the consumer wants it. They bought Ask to build market share and not for the quick buck. You will see a much better integration, i.e. ticketmaster and HSN.

Danny said you mentioned earlier the toolbar and smilies. There is discussion of AdWare and SpyWare - talk about that.

Steve said they are huge with consumer privacy. Smiley Central are toolbars people download, they do not force people to download them. He said there are bad people out there, and people misuse the technology, but they built tools to block these people to prevent that sort of click-fraud. They are looking forward to the industry moving to protect the consumer. They are looking for compliances, and industry guidelines. He will defend his product against anyone, they are clean and people love them.

Danny said you released Ask Jeeves PPC program on the 15th. What is your hope for 2007?

Steve said 2007 is a long way away. Steve said Ask's focus is about building relationships directly with advertisers. He said he never sees the Google relationship dropping. He said that they need, internally, to see CTR and if customers are happy. Ask had a PPC program for a while now but this is just an enhancement. This is not about competing with Google, MSN or Yahoo. It is about building a relationship with advertisers.

Danny said next year, can you envision how things will change at Ask and Search.

Steve said for Ask it will be about focusing around the core of search. They will continue to focus on the consumer and continue to lead the industry in innovation. They will continue to build the "Ask Jeeves Search Technology" (not Teoma anymore, its beyond that now). They will find innovative ways to integrate content providers. A continued focus on MyJeeves. IAC opportunities, and iWon opportunities. In terms of search, broadband innovation will be big. The industry will continue to innovate and figure out what the consumer really wants. More innovation on the advertising side, better targeting. This industry is attracting the best and brightest work talent.

Danny said, about the talent, how do you get the best talent?

Steve said that we can all meet the financial aspect of salaries. If people truly want to have an impact, the way Ask structured the company gives the employees a real say in making a difference. And these people will FEEL that they "moved the needle" and from a career perspective, your career doesn't stop with Ask, you can move within IAC's companies. So much opportunity and great teamwork.

Danny said he will close with; you have this "celebrity owner" and he discovered lots of things he likes about Ask Jeeves.

Steve said anything Barry does, he supports. He met with Barry in May of 2003 for dinner. Barry didn't know what they did. Then by December of 2004, Barry Diller used it a lot and he found the site to be very different and unique. He saw the innovation and he saw the challenge. When he realized the product was really good, it made Barry Diller want to come in. Barry Diller loves to fight, he will not back down from a challenge. And that instilled a tremendous amount of confidence with Ask Jeeves. He doesn't like it because he owns it but rather because its a great technology.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 12:43 PM Comments (1)

Announcement: Verizon SuperPages to offer "Pay for Calls"

In an announcement yesterday, Verizon superpages.com revealed that they will be offering a robust pay for call system of paid search listings within its online and print directories. In a conversation with Wesley Lones at an event held by Verizon last night, I was able to get some more details about the exciting news.

Advertisers will purchase a listing in the directory that provides a link to a landing page which furnishes a phone number to the prospective client. Only visitors that actually follow-through to make a call will be considered a billable "conversion." As with pay per click, the highest bidder will receive top listing for a particular term.

One interesting twist is that Verizon will also provide these platforms within its print directories. They will create a special advertisement that will be more generic but geared towards a popular service, such as "massages in San Jose," for example. This page will lead to a number to find the "Verizon preferred massage specialist in San Jose." I was unclear if that number would be automatically forwarded to the high bidder or if a recording would lead the prospect to a provider. Lones said that the system would allow for a different advertiser, based on a higher bid or the depleted budget of the current provider, to be "inserted" into the "preferred" position nearly instantly.

Information from the press release available at PRnewswire.com indicates that the product will become available to advertisers in September 2005. Business owners will not need to have a website in order to use this, enabling them to capture online leads without even having an official Internet presence. "SuperPages.com Pay For Calls advertising will have minimums ranging from $2 to $6 per call, depending on the business category. Advertisers can increase their prominence and drive more calls by raising their bids." This is a price range below the top current pay per call models.

The method is being patented. Other organizations currently providing a similar type of system are Miva, which was providing pay PER call listings to Verizon, and Ingenio, which partnered with AOL to offer the advertising method.

Please feel free to comment on this here or to discuss at SEW Forums in the Search Engine Marketing section.

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 9, 2005 10:26 AM Comments (0)

Competitive Research

(note: Partnering with the Search Engines session was cancelled, so I went to this as a backup.)

Moderator: Detlev Johnson - Position Tech

Competitive aspect has grown to fairly sophisticated tactics from the initial copying of META information that was popular in the early days. This topic is very important as is in all marketing.


Allan Dick - Vintage Tub and Bath

The Ever Popular competitive research toolkit. Types of competition analysis that can be done by the marketer themselves:

Alexa.com. Loves it. Free and fairly accurate as an entry level tool. Made by Amazon. Likes it for the multitude of competitor and other information including traffic ranks, server speed and inbound links.
Use “page views” to determine quality of traffic, what is the competition’s page depth? Archive.org: Can ause it to check past versions of websites. Keyword search - both PPC and organic…look for your competitors, especially those that are in both. Matrketleap.com can find lots of information about competitors thought his portal. Manufacturing contacts, newspaper articles, distributor information, etc…
e-mail alerts: Google alerts, Feedster and Technorati all will feed you information based on your choice of content. Google hacks- search for your site mentioned within competitors sites. Using “in title” searches for manufacturer + product. Search by phone number…can also find other companies run by competition that way. These are just a few examples of usefull Google hacks.

e-bay- “the forgotten search engine” use your top keywords to find up-and coming sellers, etc. Look at customer feedback to find out if they are successful. His experience shows that people leave feedback 1 out of 3 times, so you can estimate total sales by multiplying by 3.

Search your brand name in all major search engines to see if others are using it.

Dave Williams - 360i

Thanks Allan for another very interesting presentation. A great example of how competitive a niche opportunity can be. The rest of the speakers today will focus on Vintage Tub and Bath.

Why research competition? What is marketing opportunity? Competitive landscape? Types of competition? Potential benchmarks? Budget allocations? Campaign strategies?

Who is competition?
Comp differs depending on channel. Offline, algorithmic, paid search, shopping engines, etc. goal is to ID comp and breakdown by channels. Understand tactics and channel competition and track to desired KPIs.

Can track who the competitors by using referral tracking…where do visitors go when they go to competition? Is site designed for success? Look for things like quality code and content, internal/external linking, kw density in copy and links, multivariable URL links. Also look at Pages indexed, Google PageRank, Quality titles, headers etc…, Site layout and design, Conversion process, Site load time, Dedicated host?, Site content/depth.

Vintage tub vs. Top competitor: Both have SEO optimized titles and content. 6,600 pages indexed at VTB versus 16,000 at competitor. Both have kw rich anchor text. Both have Ok conversion process. Avg page views 4.3 VTB versus 4.7 competitor. This is an example of the kind of in-depth research that is only the beginning.

360i also looks at variety of other things including what you can learn from links. They use a tool called “Optisite” to analyze links which performs a variety of useful thing such as spidering the entire site for metrics such as page kw density, anchor text used in internal links, and computing the page topic/PageRank, for starters. It also summarizes results in a nice format.

Must analyze how competitive the search results are in terms of numbers of competitors, diversity in the channels, kw cost, difficulty to get rankings, algorithmic ranks and paid ranks and more. Also mentioned a cool tool called Scroogle that allows you to see instantly if someone is bidding for a keyword though the Yahoo Site Inclusion product (allows for paid listings within the “natural” results. Also asks if competitors are using shopping feeds. Says you can use ratings at shopping.com to see what kind of Customer Service reputation your competitor seems to have. Lastly, Dave mentions that you should be able to tell from campaign activities if your competitors are using campaign optimization tools.

Cam Balzer - Performics

Discussed the idea of reverse engineering the competitions PPC campaigns. PPC is the essence of marketing competition in that it is continuous head-to-head for every click, on every kw, in always-on auctions against every competitor and in the public eye (including the eye of the CEO checking rankings. You have to know your competitor both pre-launch and during campaigns, as well as keep an eye out for new competition.

Staret techniques include those described by Dave. Also use Google and search for all yourt keywords and use kw research tools to help find more possibilities. Cam likes the competitive anaylis tools offered by adgooroo.com for campaigns in both G and Y! Discusses that both VTB and top competitor rank well using this tool to analyze their kw’s in both overall visibility and high rankings. The rest of the competition is clearly much worse off than these two top sites for these bathtub terms. The tool also allows yout o see ad text and the percentage of times it was shown to searchers. You can use this data to help create or modify your own campaigns.

Cam describes a way to estimate spending for PPC at Yahoo by suing the kw suggestion tool in correlation with the bid price. He says to use 3.5% CTR for #1 slot, 1.5% for 2-4, and .75% for below that. (Did not mention that these numbers, especially those provided in the kw search tool, can be very misleading). Cam also described that you can do a head-to-head test with competition to see “how far they can go.” How closely are they paying attention? Do they stop bidding after a certain point in the month because they have reached their limit? Once you estimate their ability to compete, then you must chose how to fight the battle.

The keys are knowledge, expertise, vigilance, and optimism. Test your own limits and “wring every last penny out of your campaign. He also introduced the new “performics 50,” which is a report of their top clients average bids over a twelve month period (without naming names). Looks interesting.

Gavin Appel - Hitwise

Spent his time showing some sharp-looking and very useful reporting tools offered by Hitwise, “an online competitive intelligence service.” Traffic share performance is measured for Vintage Tub versus other top competitors, and only the main competitor comes close. Interesting (and becoming more common to see) that these two highly optimized sites that also use PPC get at least 50% of ALL their traffic from search engines. Of that 50%, 30% comes from Google and 8-12%, respectively from Yahoo. The rest are far below. Also looked at their search traffic versus the industry and they both way out-perform. Once you understand traffic trends, you must drill down to search terms. Ensure that you are looking at the competitors search terms. The Hitwise reporting allows you to see that in this case, 14 of the top competitor keywords were not optimized-for at Vintage. Adjustments can be made to ensure that the site is optimized or these terms are bidded-on.

Chart search terms over to help ID seasonality as well as to see which terms consistently outperform others. Also analyse what percentage of total searches are performed at which SE. Forexample, 54% of ALL searches for the term “bath tubs” occurred at Google, thus it is very important to rank well.

Closing, reiterated that you need to continually research competition in order to understand: how you fit, what they use, which SE’s performs strongest for which kw’s, and are you maximizing your opportunities?

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 9:00 PM Comments (0)

From Broad to Specific: Capitalizing on vertical search and other niche publishing opportunities.

Moderator: Sapna Satogapan - Jupiter Research

Intro: Landscape of Vertical search

Paid search forecast for 2010. 3.1 B spent in 2004 should grow to 7.5% by 2010. Should equal display advertising by 2009 at 6.8 B

Categories leading in paid search: Retail 32% Media/Entertainment 16%, Financial Services 21%, Travel 10%, Telecommunications 6%. Health 4%. Automotive 2% other 9%

Marketers that plan to increase spending for two major reasons: traffic and leads. Also to expand kw inventory, expand to other SE’s, ROI is valuable, kws are costlier, to invest in bid management technology

Speakers for Q&A:

Phil Carpenter (PC) - Sidestep.com; Gary Price (GP)- Searchenginewatch.com; Kirby Winfield (KW) - Marchex; Micheal Yang (MY) - become.com

General Q’s to be covered this session:

What can marketers expect for their spend on vertical search? What strategies would deliver value? How should marketers allocate budget?

(1) “What should a marketer expect from vertical search, any particular categories that can benefit more from vertical?”

MY: If you are targeting travel or something very specific, it makes a lot of sense to advertise on vertical search engines.

KW: “basic marketing rules apply.” If it works, they will keep it, but they have to try.

Pc: Fair for advertisers to have a healthy expectation of ROI in vertical. People are starting to expect more relevant answers in vertical portals.

(2) “For a marketer looking to use vertical search, and has to budget, how should they plan for it?”

MY: Saw a survey that said 80% getting good results advertising on “regular SE’s” and 70% liked to shopping search engines due to the fact that so many visit with CC “in hand.” CPC tends to be lower with verticals, so more cost effective.

KW: Confirm what M said, found that there was an appetite for more shopping SE’s once exposed to them.

Gary asks MY what about the idea of a research search engine. Mike answers that they did develop a search technology called Air that crawls the web purely for buyers’ guides and research/comparisons.

PC: (asked how sidestep competes with other travel portals) Marketers consider scale important as well as the quality of consumers attracted to the particular. Also the range of opportunities for marketing is important such as within newsletters, toolbars, etc. Many new players in vertical do not offer as many such choices.

(3) “What else can vertical offer that general portals cannot.”

PC: Searchers may be more sophisticated since they know that vertical search is more likely to provide specific results. This makes them worth more, and marketers are ready to pay for it.

(4) Gary asks how they get traffic:

KW: Through the ownership of 200k plus sites that are very geared towards keyword searches in the browser bar such as video cameras, for example.

PC: uses standard PR and encourages people to act as evangelists for their product.

MY: says become.com also uses a lot of viral marketing to help increase the traffic.

(5) “How should content be different from other SE’s?”

PC: The more focused content can be, the better the vertical can perform.

KW: You already essentially have the customer “in the store,” so the content should be more descriptive and less geared towards attracting traffic.

GP: Learn the language of people using the site. Use their language or “internal jargon” within the site’s content as well as when deciding what keyword phrases to purchase.

(6) “Is there a specific pricing model that is best when buying ads in a vertical space?”

PC: CPC, CPA, and CPM should all be considered instead of buying inot the prevailing idea that only CPC works. Verticals should listen to the marketers and give them a choice based on prior experiences or established success with a specific model.

(7) “What is the future of vertical search?”

MY: Similar to what happened with media in the early 80’s with the influx of hundreds of new cable channels, there are many new vertical search engines on the way.

KW: More blurring of the line between search and content. Feedback will be gathered on search results, causing for an increase in content geared to satisfying the visitor.

PC: Still a lot of consumer discovery going on with vertical. Vertical is just starting a huge groth stage as more and more people become accustomed to using it.

GP: More options in vertical searching are one the way. A good recent example is the release of the Yahoo Media Search, which seems to be a vertical area that will become very popular.

(8) “What is your vertical search wish list?”

MY: greater technology. Ideal SE should be able to read the searchers’ minds (laughs). This is much closer to being possible with vertical search, since behavior can be already segmented to the particular industry/category. Technology is not quite caught up yet to this.

KW: Overlay of behavioral targeting metrics. Being able to see what stage in the buying cycle a searcher is at the same time as overlaying their actual activity on a page, for example.

GP: There needs to be more education to the consumers about the value/relevance of vertical searches.

PC: An increase in technology to help make the user experience even better.

(9) Audience Q: “How important is application development in order to be better able to track consumer behavior after the click?

Consensus: very important. Eventually this kind of data will help to sell the value of vertical search engines, especially if it indicates that people are buying more. It seems that verticals are more likely to be able to collect information vital to help sell the service.

(10) Audience: “What if Google comes out with a vertical search?”

PC: Unlikely that Google would put itself into direct competition with such a large source of income as this particular vertical. They will probably do something, but different than direct competition.

KW: It is important to try to work together with the verticals in order to be complementary to each other.

(11) Audience: “Should you give up on bidding for a term dominated by verticals in the paid results?”

GP: No, not yet. It is still important to cover as many bases as ;possible to get closer to market saturation.

KW: “There is a lot of low-hanging fruit still to be had.”

posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 8:15 PM Comments (0)

Vertical Creep Into Regular Results

Well Barry is off doing double secret things at Yahoo. I am planning to head to the Yahoo party later as they are opening Great America theme park to conference attendees. That means I will be riding lots of rollercoasters. :-) I decided to cover this session in his place as I think it will provide better information for the readers than the other session I was planning to attend.


“If Vertical Creep were a search engine, it would be the fourth biggest search engine”

Greg Jarboe was up first to talk about the choices that we have in the search results. Over the years search tabs have been added to the main interfaces. In this seesion we are not talking about those searches, but going to look at the regular results. He does an example search for “george bush”. One of the first things you see is some news search results at the top of the regular results. He gives example of all the search engines. AOL even goes into further detail such as photo, forums, news, and bios. Ask puts the news second and bio as the first thing. It appears that often the regular results are getting buried. Another example would be a search for Paris Hilton, you get more photos than news. Hmm, something is going on he says.

Another example of vertical creep is a search for mp3 players, which gives you product results before you get the web results. Do a search for “pizza san jose” giving you local pizza places in San Jose. The search engines are getting smarter and starting to read our minds.

So what is causing this, Greg jokingly adds that its Danny Sullivan’s fault, who leaked a look at how Google may appear in 2005. It wasn’t for real of course, but Danny published an article about invisible tabs where Google and other engines are adding more and more tabs at the top of the engines. Vertical creep is a new term to describe the influx of specific results into the regular results. Greg mentions some research that has been done last year called Inside the Mind of the Searcher. It said people want more options. Users expect search engines to give them exactly what they want. He goes on to explain that by taking the individual search term you can get many different types of information. Knowing what type of information people want is the trick. He mentions that Google sent 7% of visitors to its image, news, and other verticals. Yahoo Search is sending 8% of its visitors to vertical search. MSN sent 4% of its visitors to Hotmail, MSNBC, and other verticals. Ask Jeeves sends about 2%.

So what do you do about this information? He gives an example that in March 2005 there was a significant spike in search for “hybrid cars” Toyota Prius, gas prices, and gas mileage as much as 700,000 searches. He specific examples for search for many of the engines on those terms. He shows how you can captizalize on these great searches by appearing in the vertical results, such as the news section, products, etc.

Gord Hotchkiss from Enquiro is going to continue talking about vertical creep and the real estate on the homepage. He mentions some of the eye tracking studies they have done. He says it’s a rather small piece of real estate. He pops up an image of the eye tracking study as I posted here in the past. He says they wanted to find the place that got the most attention. When the one-box results where at the top they had 50%, where sponsored got less. The one-box section did pretty well (2.12 seconds at the top), as opposed to 3.4 seconds looking at the top 3 results. He throws up another picture of hot areas from the eye tracking study showing that when there were vertical results at the top people spent more time looking. When the results were not aggregate with vertical results they often fixated on the number 1 result. He discussed intent and distraction. They found that people where more apt to look at the one-box results that had more general results. They kinda meandered around the page. They represented just 2.6% of clicks. As opposed to the sponsored results at 17.6% and 55.2% for organic. He says that users are still unsure what one-box vertical results are. That’s why they spend time trying to figure them out.

He gives some more images from the eye tracking this time with the one-box results at the top. He says that prices are a big attractor, and Froogle results are good at attracting us. He goes into demographics. Men are more apt to click on one-box results (2.6%) and females (1.8%) less likely. People with more educate click more (8%) as opposed to uneducated (.6%). He compares vertical vs. general search. He says that as we go down the buying process there will be opportunity for the search engines to come in with vertical search to help us.

There seems to be a lack of understanding about vertical search results. Current scanning seems to be more about physical placement than searcher intent. Represent a key initiative for the search engines. When present these results provide a lot of detail to catch the eye. They found one-box results where more successful than others. Right now the one-box results is more about where they are placed on the page than the searcher intent to click on them as vertical results are right in front. Great presentation by Gord, very good information.

Toolbarn.com was up next with Brian Mark. I imagine he will be explaining how his company uses vertical search to attract visitors. He is having some difficulties with flashy powerpoint presentation he has. He explains a case study they did about the organic results converted at 1% a month, or one order a month. With product search it was a lot better when they optimized. He explains that in the product feeds they optimized for model numbers of power saws. They seem to have a good long term SEO strategy. He concludes that many vertical opportunities exist and learn to use the vertical results that are creeping in to the serps. He did a pretty good job with good info being that the flashy powerpoint wasn’t too effective.

The key take homes from this sessions is that there is a good amount of oppourtunity out there in vertical search and websites can leverage this knowledge to expand their SEO strategies to include it whether it be by shopping verticals, news, images, and so on.

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 7:38 PM Comments (0)

Personalized Search & Search History

Danny Sullivan is moderating this session. Jonthan Lelang from A9.com starts off the session, by giving some examples of how A9.com works. He shows a screenshot of A9, and describes that they have toolbar. He says one of the unique things about A9 is that they have multiple columns and you can check off which choices you would like to view. A9 includes a search history, enabling visitors to see when they visited the result such “visited 9 months ago”. Users have the ability to enable search history or turn it off. It appears you need the A9 toolbar to have this option available to you. Unique. So what is history useful for? How do you find new things based on where you have been? It can provide you with options for other sites based on what you searched for last. They are building on a lot of technology with Amazon.com, that providing recommendations and suggestions goes over well. They also wanted to enable the user the ability to make their interface and personalize their results. He gives the example of searching for the space program. By personalizing the search, you can eliminate things you are not interested in such as astrology when you really want astronomy. A9 lets you build in custom searches into the toolbar and take it anywhere. Another interesting feature they have is something called the A9 diary. You can add comments about the website. Anytime you go back to visit these sticky notes are added to the top or tac it to the top for later retrieval.

Tim Mayer was up next from Yahoo. He says personalization has always been the holy grail for search engines. They have failed in some aspects in doing this. One the obstacles with personalization is when a session begins and when a session ends. When do you want to search for something different. Other issues are transient interest and genuine interest. Such as buying a country CD for a Christmas gift as opposed to you liking country.

He says they want to enable people to find, use, share, and expand all human knowledge. They wan they to use the search not for the sake of searching byt to acheieve a purpose. Sharing knowledge with people you connect with and connecting to people who you share knowledge with. He says they look at the web in three acts. Act 1 is the public web search, Act 2 is personal such as desktop search. Finally, Act 3 is the shared web such as search communities. He mentioned Yahoo My Web 2.0 in that people can share their favorites with others. He gives an example of My Web 2.0, you can search on your web or search the general web. They don’t track you unless you opt for it. He gives more examples of searches using My Web. My Web makes it rather easy to get back to info you have saved. In the default web experience its pretty basic, in the future you will get some good My Web results. The other good thing about using the product is that you don’t need to use the search to do this, you can use the bookmark features.

His next example is about Yahoo Mindset! Which came from Yahoo research labs. It will determine between whether you are shopping or researching. You can use a sliding bar to determine what type of results you can see. He ends by saying to visit the Yahoo blog for more information.

Ask Jeeves was up next with Jim Rainey. He explains background info about Ask Jeeves with lots of numbers. In my experience they like to do this before getting into the subject. He asks to start, What is personalized search? It is using various personal data to improve the quality of keyword driven search results or searchable repositories of personally relevant data. A breakdown as follows. Keywords are already pretty specific. Word polysemy is a minority of queries, such as the difference between jaguar the car, and jaguar the cat. There is also the amount of choices in the search results. Getting it wrong can make results worse as well, which is not what they want.

The challenges for personalized search is getting data from users (registration? long profiles?). Doing the right things with data and keeping the user interface simple. Like do people really want sliders? He says that search has a long way to go. One of the big areas that personalization will be big is in personal data stores. Such as email, chat text, files and documents, and so on. He explains they launched a desktop search, my jeeves which keeps a search history, search results, and bookmarks. Bloglines and using RSS feeds. He concludes with talking about how to save a search or result on Ask Jeeves.

Eurekster was up next with Grant Ryan speaking about what they are doing for personalized results. The starts with a discussion about the evolution of media and using organization and personalization. He talks about targeted search engines and channels. There are many different types of targeted search engines. Search focused on shopping, travel, jobs, and other verticals for example. He shows an example from a gaming website, in that they setup personalized search for. There are natural extensions to web personal publishing. Eureksters Search Publisher is powered by the publishers users. The technology harnesses the collective wisdom of the publishers community. Communities help each other and finding a community of like-minded individuals is a valuable tool.

Marissa Mayer from Google is the last speaker. She says that she will explain where Google is today on using personalized search. Her first slide is a picture of a sample searcher who is using Google’s personalized search. They want it to really easy for the user. Personalized search is built into Google and it is on by default. Users have a lot of control over the search history and how they navigate to standard results. There is very little work required for people to use personalized search such as history, clustered related history over time. They also provide an activity counter letting you know when you where most active. They also recently rolled out the personalized homepage. The first set of the homepage only allowed 12 modules. Last couple weeks they changed this to allow RSS feeds and bookmarks. You can also customize news such as adding your favorite paper to the search. She ends with how Google has gone about unifying all the personalized possibilities at Google.

Q&A

Q: What is the adoption rate of this personalized search?
A: We don’t give exact numbers, but they have had been satisfied. The people that seems to use the personalized search are the most loyal users.

Q: So when Google first launched personalized results, it used checkboxes, and then it switched to a implicit method.
A: Its nice to empower the user in what they are interested in. She gives an example of Tivo, it will record what you want, but also guess at what else you might be interested in.

Q: Is there effect on search rankings with people using bookmarks?
A: It’s possible, and its going to be useful. Will use balances and checks, and compared with link analysis it provides usefulness about seeing those that come back and visit often. Yahoo says that they are possibly exploring this further. A9 was the only one to admit they are actively using bookmarks to affect the natural results. Danny says it’s worth clarifying that its difficult to determine if someone has bookmarked the site. Its goes further on knowing what people have clicked on. He says it’s prone to spamming betting on clicks. The mechanisms today are better at determining what you may be doing to mess with it. Eurekster says they have come up with interesting ways to determine spammers, such as looking for patterns and how long they stay at a result. Overall the panelists like bookmarking as an indicator of quality.

Q: Jim mentioned sliders? In that earlier cars that you needed to be a mechanic to use them. He draws a comparison between a stick shift and an automatic. He asks whether people want sliders and do they have a future?
A: Yahoo is letting people play with it. They aren’t planning to launch it yet because you can’t be 30% shopping and 70% researching. It doesn’t make sense. Google seconds that, it doesn’t make sense to implement that yet. Marissa says people didn’t like looking half personalized half regular results. Its an either or issue.

Q: Are they using demographics?
A: Google hasn’t used a lot of demographics. They found the users needs vary a lot. They do some zip code stuff such as weather. Danny explains that country of origin is better demographic targeting, such that if you search in the UK it will be a little different than the US.

Q: Different personas or personalities, how do you handle the different interests or areas people may switch back and forth with interest in.
A: It’s been difficult to turn one off and one on. They are looking to blend them. People are good at managing this. Google says they would rather you be just one person because logging in and out between different id’s is not fun. She says that maybe 3-5% of results may change based on your preferences. They have also looked at changing things at times of the day.

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 5:55 PM Comments (0)

Search APIs

Detlev Johnson is the moderator for this wonderful new SES session. He said search engines have offered agencies tools to interface with the search engine systems in the past. This is the topic of that session.

Kevin Lee with Did-It was up first. 45% of audience is techy, 45% are marketers. The APIs are here because there is a need for it. In the past, you had to create a spider of your own to scrap the screens to automate the process. You basically had to pretend you were a human, and interact with these screens. Very inefficient for both the 3rd party and the search engines. API = application programming interface, by the way. APIs exist to enable you to automate processes that would be time intensive if done manually. Through the use of APIs you can leverage the processing power of your server and databases to communicate with each other. APIs do not replace all human interaction, but they make humans more efficient. There are non commercial APIs for Web search, Google API (www.google.com/apis/), Yahoo API (developer.yahoo.net/search/). What can you do with search APIs? (1) Check position, (2) analyze content (3) competitive research and so on. Paid Search PPC Management APIs are for commercial reasons. Yahoo!'s PPC API program has been around for many years. Google AdWords API is, of course, in beta. and APIs help level the playing field for larger marketers. Is it worth building your own APIs based on software to manage PPC campaigns? Depends on the different APIs you need, number of keywords, getting the market state for a keyword listing is easy but its hard to know what to do with that info, and bidding logic can get complicated particularly in hybrid auctions. APIs are always missing some of the features you would want, so look through the API spec before implementing. XML Paid Inclusion is essentially an API of sorts; tuning feed mix, tuning titles body description, and volume and position for some phrases. Why are the artificial intelligence systems hard? Syndication of engines may change, competitive reactions differ by keyword, conversion changes, click volume change, billed clicks change and likelihood of click fraud change. Upcoming Paid Search APIs: MSN AdCenter, Ingenio API, and Paid Search APIs are turning into media management APIs (contextual, behavioral, banners, etc.) APIs can go down, what do you do when this happens? Yahoo or Google's system may flake out (they do). Position centric algorithms in PPC software create a perfect environment for bid wars. Constant changes at the engines require frequent changes to the bidding wars. Maximize profit, you must buy the best clicks first, keep buying clicks until you maximize profits, know the elasticity of your marketplace, take into account keyword volatility, and react and predict. The engines are moving more towards "yield" optimization, less about specific position and more about averages. You need to move towards a more holistic perspective when programming these PPC APIs. Google is serving ads based on predictors and MSN is using demographics. The future of media will be digital through APIs. [My notes, my company uses APIs all day for all sorts of purposes; old ones include, shipping and payment services, also news feeds, search apis and so much more).

Rien Heals from Performics was up next. They manage keywords, creatives and bids with APIs. He throws up a graphic that shows one way to build an API from a work-flow perspective. Its all about extraction of data and submission of data - the logic comes from your side. With performics, you use one system to communicate with the PPC engines. API considerations; throttle limitations, money, inconsistent use of standards, testing and constant change. Best practices; define your own vernacular (different search engines use different terms), establish a solid framework, push search engine communications to the fringes, and test and development.

A9, DeWitt Clinton to talk about OpenSearch 1.0. When they launched A9 they had six or seven columns on the site, and they wanted to add more. He said as they added them, using APIs, each one was different. But when you think about it, search is pretty much the same. So A9 wanted to propose a standard for this, and recommended using RSS but it was missing something for publishing search results. OpenSearch added the missing bits as a simple extension to RSS (bits include total results, start index and items per page). Over 200 search engines available today as OpenSearch.

Yahoo, Jeremy Zawodny. Yahoo! offers several APIs (developer.yahoo.net). Flickr, Maps, Music, RSS, Search, Shopping, Widgets. Search APIs include; Web (myweb, myweb 2.0), image, news, video, ads, shopping, and audio. Most also offer RSS feeds. What is involved. You need is an application ID, simple URLs (REST interface, simple XML results, and RSS too), Rate limits are 5,000 requests/service/ip/day and many examples on the Yahoo Developer site. Why do you want to use the APIs? its better then scrapping tools (format won't change without version change, same search clusters serve results), supported email forums, dedicated team and lots of preexisting tools and examples. Advertising APIs; AWS (advertiser web services) gives you XML interface, Yahoo Search Marketing openAPI, launched in 2001 as "DTC XML". He shows a slide of how it works as a workflow. Key Benefits of AWS; efficiency, automation, and customization. He then describes difference between the AWS and Overture Account management - mostly logical stuff. There is a free program available, production level program with fees and requires agreement to terms and conditions. For more info on AWS email dtcxml-info@yahoo-inc.com.

Q: Will Yahoo! offer SOAP protocol?
A: Jeremy said most probably in the future.

Q: I asked why do the total results not match with Yahoo! (Google wasn't there)?
A: Jeremy said there are different clusters being used (same as on the main Web search) but he said you should not use it for that information as the final number. There are many reasons why the total results dont match, he said.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 5:38 PM Comments (0)

Searcher Behavior Research Update

Intro: Detlev Johnson- Position Tech

Gord Hotchkiss - Enquiro.

Learned how to make a better PowerPoint presentation from his 9 year old daughter last night (laughs).

“Golden Triangle” Eye tracking study with 48 people using 5 different scenarios: “free” to completely scripted. Looked at how they interacted with Google only. Full study released June 30, 2005. Study showed that the aggregate activity indicated that the top left triangle of search results (organic and paid) is the most popular real estate, thus called the "golden triangle."

How do “we” navigate a page?

Start with orientation and start looking at various aspects. Fixations (momentary stop of eyeball) versus significant scanning versus actual clicks. Shows where people actually start reading listings.

1. Fixation: most people do look at top sponsored listings if on left 43.2%, some look at “local results” 14.6%, then go onto first organic 38.7%

2. Scanning 31.2% top sponsored listing, 14.6% in “local box.“ 46.7% top organic spot.

3. Clicks: 13.5 top paid, 2.5 local box, 42.2(!!) top organic.

Paid search right side results, Fixation: 1%, Scanning: 2.0%, Clicks: 4.2% (see migration below)

First process is fixate on title, if interesting, read content, if want to, then click. This resembles an “F” pattern.

Do see some migration to side results before actually scrolling down for further organic results. Has found that title tags are very important to visitors, since it is the only thing they have to determine whether to read or not.

Individual “Semantic Mapping” defined: if nearly identical results occur in title, interesting occurrence in that if one particular phrase repeated, more likely to be clicked on by second or third mention. People are scanning listings looking for their own semantic map. People look for bolded search query, icons, prices, consumer behavior & comparison, product details, especially price, trusted brands (as a pull, not push interaction), geographic references.

First search vs. “go-back” or repeat search. Golden triangle breaks down completely on second search, scanning activity is more thorough after going back.

Important to do a “SERP SWOT analysis”: Who is there? What are they offering? Are they providing matches for the searcher’s semantic map? Need to know who else is there.

Summing up: must understand behavior or YOUR market. What is their primary real estate? How do they scan listings? What is their semantic map? Understand difference between first/second visit? Do a SERP SWOT.

Jonathan Mendez, Digital Grit, Inc.

“Understanding your customers improves your business!”

Searcher behavior gains insight into:
Keyword pahrses
Natural search use
Paid placement use
Competition review

“Nothing is better than face-to-face interaction with clients in order to gain their goals.”

Discovery and Understanding user goals is key to successful SEM. Must differentiate betwwen "defined" and "latent" goals.

**Defined goals are easy to discover: research popular keywords.

**Latent goals: “Invisible keywords” that remain inside user’s head. If you can draw these out = success. Latent goals focus more on relevance and are often verbs.

Case study:
Client email solution provider for small to mid sized business

How user goals were evidenced: only two kw strings were repeated out of 43 different kw searches to find one tool.. "Create," "send," and "manage" were not used in search a single time, even though this is what they wanted (the "latent" keywords).

Kw strings started general and became more specific as users became frustrated w/results.

13% of respondent performed industry specific search.

When invisible kws were present, users were called to action, if not present, then they were not likely to click. Clicks were evenly spread above the fold.

Results: earlier in the results that the latent kws are represented, the higher chance of clicks.

8 of 15 users specifically avoid “ads,” but many users did not realize they were paid clicks. Right side AdWords were generally ignored.

User behavior and competitive factor: 9 of 15 were looking for a box software vs. web-based application, and box software apps are marketing this

How to understand goals better? learn by watching and listening to customers.


Allison Kane and Inga Johnson, Atlas OnePoint

Discuss repeat searches and appropriate evaluation of kw campaign portfolio.

Yahoo study found that users search between 12 and 15 times before actual purchase. What does this mean for individual advertiser?

How often is an individual advertiser's keyword clicked on before purchase? Looked at repeat search behavior: 43% clicked on multiple results, an average of 2.3 sites visited per search. One patern that became apparent was the use of an advertiser name as last search query (a "branded search"), with 26% on average being a navigational search. Yahoo says 91% of consumers converting on a branded search started with a more general search.

Inga Johnson: principles apply across the board for both paid and organic search, important to use a single tracking method to understand more fully the searcher behavior. Also must study the search cycle instead o just the converting search. This enables you to find the overall cost of the sale broken down to particular to calculate Return on Ads Spend. If attribute the sale to the last click, harder to accurately determine ROI.

If the conversion cycle is long, the likelihood that navigational searches will precede a buy increases.

Many factors influence valuation of kws, Atlas OnePoint feels that all keywords in the sequence should be take part of the credit for the conversion. Things that must be studied include:

Natural search rankings
Average time to convert
Categorical vs. specific
Other media

What would happen if you took a keyword out of the sequence? Would the visitor still come back and convert? Goal is to not discount prior searches, but instead to look at entire cycle. Anecdotally, a client that tested pulling lower converting terms out of basket had a negative result on sales. Should give some credit to lower conversion terms as being part of the overall sales process.


Cam Balzer, Performics

Discusses how people act on the way to a purchase.

SEM is increasingly competitive and challenging. Looking beyond pure ROI to branding and sales cycle.

Competing effectively does require technology and expertise, as well as insight into customers as searchers This will make your campaigns more relevant and effective.

What do people do before last clicks?

Study: e-Commerce sites in 5 verticals. Looked at all searches during 12 weeks prior to purchase. As opposed to Yahoo study, went from last search and looked back. In order to identify and categorize searches into “generic” vs. “brand” searches.

Roughly half of buyers made a relevant search before online purchase, as far back as 12 weeks, mostly generic activity. Majority of users did last search before purchase MORE THAN TWO WEEKS prior to purchase. Ie: found a trip to Chicago and then made a decision before retuning significantly later to actually purchase. This shows that online purchases take time, and it is important to use a reasonable window to track online purchases (longer than two weeks.) Go from sessions-based cookie to longer. For example, 7-day cookie is too short. Results of increasing cookie "time" were dramatic: Tracked searches on generic terms increased 85%, ROI on generic terms improved by 41% and sales from brand terms increased 20%. This allows you to better see the value of generic terms and bid accordingly.

Most buyers never search on brand, however, as described by Atlas, many people switch to brand searches for purchase. The crux is that “generic searches DO provide a branding opportunity.” Recommendation: Factor in the value of non-branded searches early in the buying cycle. Fully utilize campaign data and incorporate performance results into campaigns.

Anther case study found that generic keywords such as “shoes” etc, drove offline and online sales, as well as increased their brand recognition. By buying “jewelry” for six weeks, a retailer was able to increase their brand awareness. Must look at broader long term benefits that can be derived from search.

“Know the searcher to win at search.” Must have technology, expertise AND insight into customer behavior to succeed.

Q&A:

“How did you track offline sales, Cam?”

Used “Dynamic Logic” in this study.


For Jonathan: “Difference between nouns and verbs used in searches in focus study?”

Jonathan: Shows that verbs really are the calls to action when determining that goals are genrally verb-based?

Detlev: anecdotal evidence suggest most queries are nouns.

General: “Looking at click before final conversion in terms of brand lift. Have you looked at brand lift more generally as to the value of just appearing on the page?

Jonathan: would be nice to study, but hard to drop “impression cookie” to identify if people saw your ad. Currently limited to using third party data sources in order to make such inferences.

Cam: Most branding is done by images etc, difficult to related this to search because it is mostly text.

For all: “Has any study been done in regards to searches behavior for international markets?

A: Most studies are US-based, but we can estimate that the patterns would hold true, unless reading left to right (lol).


For all: “If low volume searches are part of the search stack that leads to a conversion, why does Google disable them so often?”

Allison: Ask Google. :)


posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 3:49 PM Comments (0)

Eye of the Storm: Lessons from Large Search Marketers

Ok welcome everyone to my first installment in the Triple play coverage. I once again want to thank Barry and Ben for letting my join them on this endeavor, and I will do my best to keep the quality of the coverage up to the standards that Search Engine Roundtable readers expect. Sorry about the delay in this instalment as I had some technical difficulties.

Session: Eye of the Storm: Lessons from Large Search Marketers
Description: Large marketers tend to have different needs and strategies than their smaller counterparts, such as requiring industrial strength analytics tools. What lessons can be learned from these marketers search practices? What do these companies look for in their search agencies?

This session started with an intro by Zia and then was a structured Q&A moderated by Zia.

Speakers:

Moderator: Zia Wigler- Jupiter Research
“Welcome to SES. Quick presentation of some recent Jupiter research”

Definition of sophisticated SEM’s versus “unsophisticated“: sophisticated have begun to employ bid managment and analytics tools 58% have budget of 250k plus/.

“Sophisticated” are more confident about exploring different strategies new keywords ad text. Higher percentage of sophisticated marketers use tactics such as landing page optimization and testing, changing bids, updating keywords, changing ad text, changing landing pages. All these and more should be done monthly at least.

In regards to portals, 99% working with Google, 88% working with Yahoo! SM. Between 19-30% using others such as verticals find what.com.

Keyword “baskets.“ majority use 1-250 or 250-1000.

Most “sophisticates” use: technology to help with bidding.

Future bidding: “Sophisticates” looking to spend more money on SEM going fwd: 36% expect at least 25% increase vs. 42% expect less than 25% increase for a total of 67%. 16% plan to decrease spending, while the rest will maintain spending.


Structured Q&A:

First question (1): How do you run your SEM?

Ethan Giffin- Allegis Group, Inc.: operated by an interactive media group that manages all websites

Emily Schubert- Travelocity: marketing dept is fragmented, but SEM is all under her, uses in house also.

Allan Dick- Vintage Tub and Bath: Staff of 4 purely geared towards SEM in house. Search has been “heart and sole of business, train everyone except warehousing staff in order to ensure everyone understands what is going on. Customer service and sales must be tuned to the fact that people search for SEM, and therefore helps to track new keywords or particular SE use to find products.”


(2) Primary goal direct sales or branding?

Et: No comment

El: Direct sales. Completely ROI focus Every dollar must be accounted for, but less emphasis. 25-30 percent of sales affected by search. Must ensure all copy is updated with seasonal and promotional updates. Working on increasing branding. Implementing new analytics program to help find more value in branding.

A: Completely ROI driven, but feeling that they are starting to build a brand: primary indicator that competition is starting to bid on their name.


(3) Working with agencies?

Et: Started to come to shows in 2001, but took a while to “sell” that search was important. Works very closely with one agency that has the ability to manage ALL aspects, paid and organic. Was very important to them to use a company that can do all things. Needed someone with the ability to add new campaigns as needed.

El: Has interesting agency relationship. They started with two ladies that were getting on their feet, and have grown with Travelocity. Echoes Allen’s comment that it is very important to know the subtleties of the business. This agency has done-so. By making a consistent effort. They have made changes to coincide with needs such as hiring an analyst when they became more ROI-focused.

A: Started on eBay, and then stuck with DOY mentality, tried some agencies, but had mixed results. Reason for not using agencies is that each agency has difference strengths, not exactly aligning with all needs of Vintage Tub and bath. Tries to first develop in house, but will try an agency on a trial basis. Was told by one SEM (after asking them) that if he were IBM, more focus would be spent on them.. Also, some SEM’s did not gain a familiarity with products, even with lots of training performed in house and paid for by Vintage. Has had better results internally for these reasons. Vendors have to become more accountable and more able to learn products in order to be considered. Doesn’t believe in “one size fits all agencies.”

(4) How have expectations of agencies changed?

Et: “Likes to do business with people that they like to hug.” Needs the ability to call and get a direct response.

El: Focus on ROI has enabled them to become more strategic with agencies and continual focus on the future and the “pulse of the search business.” Agencies should be becoming more focused on the ability to track data.

A: No comment


(5) Do you have an agency “wish list?”

Et: Keeping up with the most current methodology and technology.

El: Would like more help with long-term planning, but understands it is difficult in this industry.

A: NC

(6) When is it time to expand budget?

Et: Likes to spend money, so will continue to expand as often as possible.

El: Is the time right? High travel seasons, etc, dictate increase of budget. Increases keyword list according to campaign promotions that are going on and as they discover trends in particular keyword ROI increases. Also focuses on more niches such as “gay travel,” “sky travel,” etc… Likes to look at overall CPC growths and keep pace, although they do not bid as high as many of the competitors. Use of analytics and bid management has greatly helped guide budget changes.

A: “We are opportunistic, nice way of saying : We don’t have a business plan (laughs)” Expands when they feel the time is right. Has been able to track revenue due to addition of special coded character on the bottom of the page. Sales force asks for this and it helps them track where and when to expand.

(7) When to use/ how to evaluate new portals?

Et: Most of paid goes to big two, but does use vertical search since 1997 to drive job postings across Internet..

El: Portion of budget is geared towards 30-90 day testing and then analyze volume performance. What is opportunity cost of taking it away from major portals? What verticals are most important. Unless you have unlimited cap on spending, majority should go towards “big three.” Had very bad ROI from “second tier.”

A: Use of second tier were consistently bad with both page depth and ROI. They stick with big three to ensure consistency. But they will keep testing.

(8) How often/ how indepth do you evaluate competition?

Et: They do quarterly analysis of competition. They do use agency for this.

El: They do watch affiliate marketers especially for misuse of logo or using of brand name. Also watch competitors affiliates to watch for “bid jamming.” They use legal department often in order to stop this. Not a game of “they did X so we’ll do X.” They use agency for monthly reports vs. completion on natural side, but paid side is more informal.

A: They definitely monitor competition. One person actually dedicated to monitoring bidding strategies, location, etc. They know the “ego bidders” all the way to the “mathematicians.” They are aggressive with that, and it impacts what they do. If they do not see ROI, but competition is bidding on it, they will continue to avoid. Difficult to determine what the competition ROI is, so speculation could be dangerous.

(9) How to make argument of SEM versus other media?

Et: SEM has consistently proven to be a better ROI than offline media, so they focus on that.

El: Uses and agency to help determine this using an econometric model and analyzing after time period. Shifts money sometimes due to ability to see that some efforts are not working and others are. Can usually get more money for search when they ask for it, but must keep overall media mix in mind.

A: Use your own SEM results to compare to other marketing: ask them what their ROI is for a particular newspaper ad, or other effort. No need to apologize for being a search marketer, since we have the ability to measure returns so much more thoroughly..

(10) Biggest Frustration with SEM?

Et: Technology issues trying to keep up with SEM and analytics market.

El: Wishes that they could keep up with the pace of SEM, in their feeling the business is not moving fast enough to keep up with SEM.

A: Not enough terms, since only a limited number of terms are applicable to their products. They need to expand product offerings before expanding SEM.

(11) Forecast for next two years?
Et: Hopefully on a beach with a cigar and a laptop (laughs). Hard to tell, but sees more consolidation in the market.

El: Hard to predict where search is going, but she predicts that from a management perspective it will be more important to integrate tools and analytics into campaigns. Increasing CPC bid pressure. Hopes se’s take action against rogue affiliates. Focus on new ways to draw a user to click on ad-moving towards more graphics interface? Keeping an eye on other search such as mobile, etc.

A: Agreed with Emily and Ethan. Thinks SEM is like a thirteen year old. Still awkward, hasn’t figured its role in marketing yet, but this will change in next couple of years. This will make things more difficult as it becomes less of a “wild west” environment to “break into it” since those that were in from the beginning have already tested so many things. Will get tougher to break into market because of this.

Audience Q: “How are they getting feedback from clients to help judge value?”

A: Trying to ask more questions of clients, but just need to “listen to what is going on.” Their department is in tune to tracking such things to help tracking, will increase in importance.

Audience Q: How are they getting feedback from clients to help judge value?

A: Use of training associates to ask the right questions.

Audience: “How do you protect brand name, especially since so generic?”

A: They first ask people not to bid on their brand name, they try to do the same by not bidding on competitors. If they are stealing content, they get legal, and they do remember who does this. They will beat the deal of that competitor “no matter what.”


posted chrisboggs in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 3:28 PM Comments (0)

Earning From Search & Contextual Ads

Jennifer Slegg, JenSense.com, Jenstar. She said she will talk about YPN versus Google AdSense. Both are very similar in terms of real time stats, similar ad formats, similar tos, and so on. She showed YPN versus Google side by side. Google AdSense international publishers can apply, YPN you currently can not. Google offers additional tools and services, YPN only offers traditional ad units. Google AdSense more competition for highest paying ads, YPN has fewer publishers right now. Google allows Multiple ad units per page, YPN you can do it but you might not see different ad units. Google has smart pricing, YPN does not at the moment. Alternatives to AdSense and YPN; Kanoodle BrightAds is for US publishers only, average $.35 per click, payment terms are net 30, no min page views but should be professional, serves all verticals, real time stats and 30,000 ads. Quigo AdSonar, international pubs accepted but mostly US traffic, pay net 30, acceptance criteria much stricter, effective eCPM varies on vertical, real time stats is about 15 m in delay, ads come from in house (about 1,000 now). Chitika accepts international pubs, average epc is $.50, net 45, no traffic mins, offers all verticals, stats updated daily. Mirago accepted pubs in UK, average EPC .21p (.31USD), payment 30 days, each pub is reviewed and real time stats. ContextWeb accepts international pubs, EPC varies, payment via net 15, offers all verticals. Miva has AdRevenue Xpress, must be at least 80% US, Canada, Australia or UK. EPC varies, payment by check, paypal, wire, no min traffic, serves all verticals, real time stats. Clicksor accepts all international, only english, average $.20 per clic, check on the 15th or end of the day, real time stats, all verticals, and 4,000 advertisers. BidClix international pubs with english content, average is $.30 per click, payment by check or paypal net 15 after moth, min 10,000 uniques per month, offer 30 content channels, real time stats and 11,000 advertisers. When is MSN coming out with it? Soon I guess...

Optimizing contextual Ads; poor placement is when you put the ads outside of the context (all the way to the right or bottom). Good placement is when you remove the border and place it within the context. If you place the ads on your left nav, people might click more. Proximity; content surrounding your ad unit can influence your ads. Ad Unit Selection; dont use what is rumored to be the best ad unit because not all ad units work for all sites, try a variety of sizes to determine what size gives you the highest CTR rate. Ad Units colors and borders; experiment with colors, most sites find hidden borders, never use default ad colors. Quality Content. URL filters; this is not a strategy to force higher paying ads to appear. Testing Contextual Ads; use your AdSenses or YPN channels, always test on non holiday weekends, try switching ad placement, keep track of what works and what does not, never assume that what works on one site will work on an other. Read your terms & policies, test placement, ad styles and colors, and do not go overboard with your URL filters.

Google is now up, Gokul Rajaram. The Internet Ecosytem; users, advertisers and publishers. Drive monetization through innovation; Google is committed to helping you achieve this. Google AdSense for content and AdSense for Search are the two products. Google AdSense is global (17 languages), click feedback is used to maximize feedback, and they use a combination of contextual-targeting and site-targeting technology. Contextual Targeting looks at link structure, keyword placement and so on. Site Targeting allows advertisers to bid to put ads on a particular site. They Site targeted ads compete in the same auction as contextual ads. This allows a publisher to tell a potential advertiser to bid on a particular site, without an advertising department. Link Units is an other new thing they added, link units is a topic based link, and when clicked it takes the user to a page of ads ads based on that category (topic). AdSense for search enables publishers to put web search on their site and a method to monetize it.

Will Johnson from Yahoo! Publisher Network was next up. YPN Self Service Platform; beta program to extend Yahoo!'s distribution program to a broader set of quality publishers on the Web, same ad network, invite only program with ~2,000 publishers to test and learn before a broader release. Yahoo! Value Proposition; competitive revenue, conversion, control, content, customer focus, community. Competitive Revenue & Conversion; provide publishers opps to earn revenue from context ads, beta product is just the beginning...Yahoo will be rolling out additional revenue opps in the near term, there is significant investment being made in the quality of the network. Publisher Control; a new feature will be rolled out named 'ad targeting' which allows the publisher more control. Content; create a more engaging experience for your users by providing visitors with convenient search related results, promote and distribute your content on Yahoo! via RSS. Customer focus and Community; they have phone support (I used it), they show the frontend of the portal which has "messages" to inform you about new announcements and a method to "send us a note" that takes you to a phone number. Second thing on that portal screen is a publisher poll. Third thing on that screen is a "Tips for Publishers" area.

Weblogs Inc., Jason Calacanis, will show us how he uses ads on this site. He loves Google, and wants to love Yahoo!. When he first started he didn't thing AdSense would work. He said users don't look at the text ads as ads, they look at them as content. He showed how one site had the adsense above the logo, it did not work to well, moving it under the logo works much better. He said putting ads in the content is evil and wrong - don't do this he said. They do lots of testing and optimization, and they do put ads in RSS ads. He said putting the ads right next to the content is not nice, but it does work well, he wont do it. He said his biggest mistake was not to use channels more. He said, should you do any SEO? He said SEO is a scam and its over. He said Google has humans pushing sites up in the results. He said its over because humans are looking at it now. He said they do zero SEO and they do extremely well. Should you work with Google or Yahoo? As a publisher, he says, they are very loyal to Google. It doesn't mean they wont stick with Google, they will try Yahoo. The issue is, Yahoo! is in the content business, Google is not in the content business. Do you want to partner with a competitor? Yahoo wants to keep the user, but Google sends people to the sites. [Very good question, very good.] He said he expects to see guarantee minimums, the publishers are taking the risk, not the advertising networks.

About.com, Scott Meyer was next up. This is his first talk at a big event like this. They are the single largest developers of original content on the Web. He then talks a bit about SEO, [they should leave SEO for a different session]. So how do they make money about every page? They have relevant image ads, they have e-commerce lead generation ads, and they have sponsored links on side left navigation and in a box in the content. Challenges and opportunities in contextual ads; you can monetize niche content that display ads that can not be reached, requires the right placements and a great deal of maintenance, vendors have not yet cracked the code for targeting the individual (nytimes.com), local ads is still under-developed (boston.com). He said in print, like NY Times - there might be an article about famine in some place. The ad in print is for high end jewelry, but the ads on the Web are for non profits. They prefer the high end jewelry ads because the readers are those that want to see ads on high end jewelry.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 3:09 PM Comments (0)

Weird Science: The Next Generation in Media Planning and Buying

The floor opens with Gary Stein as moderator and welcomes everyone for coming. He says he will show us the online advertising forecast which is just being released in this session. He seems quite excited to show us the new data. It looks like search revenues at 6.8 billion in 2009 will surpass display advertising. That’s significant. Search is continuing to grow upwards. He says the one thing will change is the cost to display a search ad. The pricing scheme distribution raises some interesting conclusions that CPM will slowly decline over the next 5 years. It will be replaced with preferred cost per click. He says they are seeing publishers getting into deeper content. So what are advertiser’s plans and experiences? The graph looks like Email (house list), SEO, Paid Search, and Banners are in the top 4 as planned online advertising they will use in the next 12 months. The issue that has also been with that is behavioral targeting. How much do people believe in behavioral targeting and how effective is it. When asked what will give the best ROI, most publishers say behavioral targeting. The problem: there are not a lot of people doing it. They believe I can work, but not with ability or desire.

The good news he explains is that publisher confidence that their getting a good ROI from their online advertising. This is good news and has been consistent the last two years. This is an indicator that relates to a great ongoing opportunity, its not in a peak, and its going to continue to grow. Gary talks next about agency strengths vs. client needs. The biggest split relates to industry expertise. It means that if you sell knitting supplies, then you don’t necessary want to hire someone who just specializes in knitting supplies. You don’t need to show up with knitting needle skills. The only industry that bucks this trend is pharmaceuticals. Advertisers are looking for very good expertise and looking for someone to help pilot them through the waters.

Doran Suite from Agency.com was up after Gary and plans to talk about what he is doing from creative decisions from both sides. Sides like the web side and the PR side sometimes don’t understand each other. Why can’t they all work together. In traditional agencies you have different wings such as creative people, technology people, strategy people, etc.. When they got together they created something. He says there is more competition, and less people with good skills. In the past couple years, things have gone gangbusters. Their clients are demanding things they hear even though its not necessary good. Clients and middle management people who have aged and they are more mature about the internet. It’s a big shift and changed the way the education continues.

Mark Stephens from Razorfish talks next. He says its always been about the data. Razorfish brings a more holistic view to the web. Gary asks him about splits. Mark says there are really not too many splits. They want to look at the views of the website, the branding, and looking at website traffic to convert to into rating. They are taking analytics and converting into agency terms.

Heidi Browning from Organic says they want to build a good relationship with the client. From a media perspective, they combine the organic with the traditional. They want to present a more well rounded prospective of the success they can generate. She says more and more people are wanting to bring their websites out into the media space. They watch closely the ad units and how people interact with them. Such as getting a mobile phone number and how many pages have view is an indication of a level of engagement.

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 2:37 PM Comments (0)

Search Algorithms: The Patent Files

Chris Sherman opens up the panel and welcome everyone who have started with this session. He explains that Rand Fishkin was not able to make the panel. They are going to pay an audio file over the presentation. His audio plays, and it’s kinda hard to hear and he speaks to fast. Rand Fishkin is to present details about Understanding Googles Patent: Information Retrieval based on Historical data.

Rand goes on to explain that this data and information will help us rank our pages better. He starts with Document Inception Dates and how they impact the results. He goes on to say that this also works with Yahoo and MSN. He says that the first time a spider finds a page is one way a search engine can find the page and record the date. The first discovery of the link or the registration date of the domain are also ways to find the document inceptions date. His next slide is about how content changes affect changes. He explains that insubstantial and cosmetic changes will be ignored. Links that remain after pages are updated may be considered more valuable. Google may also positively weight changes to the a page. Rand goes on to talk about Temporal Analysis for links affecting rankings. He says the search engines will measure new links that appear to identity trends. He gives an example that it may be odd that a page gains a lot of links in a short amount of time. The search engines will make assumptions based on the link data. The patent document also mentions Google may look freshness of link weights such as the data of appearance, change of anchor text, and change of the page the link is on. He explain the patent document also explains that additional weight may be given to how much they may trust the link such as .gov and .edu links.

His next slide is about how Google may flag a site for spam. It depends on the speed of link gain, source of link gain, and so on. He goes on quickly to talk about identifying doorway and throwaway domains. How long in advance was the domain paid for? DNS Records such as the name of the register, technical contacts, address of the name servers. Google also claims they will use a list of known bad contacts such as ip ranges and so on. Google also considers domain ranking history. Such as sites that jump in rankings may be spamming. Commercial queries may have higher levels of sensitivity to potential spam. Google may monitor the rate at which a was selected over other sites. How fast the site went to the top of the search rankings.

So what are preventative measures against spam? Google may employ these methods to stop spam such as limiting the maximum achievable rank increase over a given period of time. Consider mentions of documents in news articles. Google also looks at traffic analysis, such as a large reduction in traffic may indicate that a result is “stale”. Seasonality may be used to help determine relevance. The patent claims to measure “advertising traffic” for websites. A lot of this is speculation, and no one knows exactly how they collect some of this information at all. Google may also rely on user data such as the number of times that a page is selected from the SERPS. The amount of time users spend on the page/site. The relative amount of time that users spend on a particular site/page could be a factor.

Dr. Garcia from Mi Islita.com is up next to speak about Patents on Duplicated Content. He states some disclaimers. The first is a patent document does not mean implementation. Dr. Garcia talks about Google Patent Detecting Query Specific Duplicate Documents. He explains how they do this. The does a query, candidate results ranked by relevancy (A,B,C,D,E), it goes through query specific Filters, looks for duplicates, removes duplicates, and finally shows the final set to the user (A,B,E). How Google may test to final duplicate documents is that is first sends the document through linearization. It uses a 15 to 100 character sliding window. The idea is to shift the window over the text and calculate the term frequency in that area. There may be many sliding windows. The idea is to collect the top 2 sliding windows, to define a query relevant to the corresponding documents. He goes on to say the 2003 patent will compare a current snippet with snippets already in the final set. His slide displays a list of ranked results, he says that is result is similar to result number 2, but not 1, then it will keep it. The patent document opens the door for using server detection methods, such as standard IR similarity measures and shingles.

He next goes into more complicated math, relating to how they treat a snippet as vectors and compute a cosine similarity. The idea is to analyze the two coordinates in the space. Based on the displacement of the two points, they can get a magnitude, and a DOT product, which they can use to finally measure similarity. The closer of the cosine to 1, the point of comparison will make the document similar. They can set a limit, that is the cosine is a certain point, they can make a decision to reject or accept the document. Retesting is also possible. He goes on to study another way to compare resemblance, he takes information from Altavista Patent published in 2001. What they do is take two linearizied documents. Count individual and common Shingles (or windows). He gives the examples such as the phrases “ a rose is a” from document A and it tends to be compared with document B. His next slide talks about using Jaccard’s coefficient and computing the resemblance of the documents. This I think helps look for false positives if using short shingles, such as unrelated documents that may look similar\and false negatives who use long negatives such as small changes producing large impact.

He asks, is Google implementing the Patent or not? He says he was curious to find out the length of snippets used. He found that Google uses a 15 term sliding window, but a 30 term snippet. So if Google is not using this patent then why should be care? He says copywriters can better understand the how, what, and why of search engine snippets. Optimization of snippets that would improve SERPS clicks throughs. It can also encourage testing of snippet-based filters. Developers in particular can understand hierarchical clustering interfaces. They can also design of snippet based tools such as keyword suggestion tools, so on. Great presentation.

Ani Kortikar from Netramind was up next. He starts off light talking about his kids and show and tell. He says his kids like to play along. He walks to walk through a lot of ideas. His first slide says “Patentology” and predicting futures. He explains that people look at alternative methods of predicting the future. He says when he looked at a lot of the patents, search engines are going through 4 stages of quality control. Interesting. The first one is Administrative Control & Editorial discretion. He says search engines want to know if you have administrative control and if you do you have a greater chance to get treated better. The next stage is Usage – trends, cache bookmarks. He explains when you look at it; you see why they created the toolbars. He asks whether people really refer to older sites more or vice versa? He says search engines are trying to figure this out. The next stage is the Search Experience. This stage has methods for which search engines can analyze the text. The final stage is Intent. They want to know what you want to do, such as buy a home in Arizona, or rent a home in Arizona. They want to know you intent.

He goes on to give another analogy of the situation about the Tortoise and the Hair. He gives the advice to have no surprises such as link growth, content growth, and structure changes. This advice might be overkill in my opinion. He goes on to above about how much green can you get? He mentions individual patents. Such as #1741 – historical data, 4873 – related documents, 9851 – creating hyperlinks, 9576 – direct navigation, 5259 – ranking by re-ranking, and 9499 improving search quality.

He also looked at some patents by Yahoo. He says Google has more houses, but Yahoo has more cards. He mentions ones of interest, such as #3996 – affinity analysis what is the percentage someone might use a related search, 0609 – extracting prices from html, 1372 sales/rev – search weight, 2259 – trend analysis, 0108 cookies to database. He says you probably already know this. Do deliberate and methodical planning, provide multiple information streams, and look at visitor retention analysis and planning, and watch your back. Ani did a good job and very interesting presentation.

Finally up is Jon Glick from Become.com. He explains what a patent is, and whether or not we can trust a patent. Search engines know that their patents will be read by competitors and SEOs, and they author them accordingly. Going over a couple key disclosures such as search engines may take into account, CTR as a ranking factor. He says CTR is a great indicator of relevancy, but its easy to distort. The search engines aren’t too fond of this method. He explains an example of the Google smileys in the toolbar. He said he talked to someone at Google about it, they couldn’t comment, but said that if a site gets a whole lot of simileys then they might have the spam people take a look at it. He goes on to talk about how the time spent on a site may also be a factor. They could use to flag sites where users hit the back button almost immediately. Boosting ranking for final destinations, such as users spending more time on your site.

He goes on to talk about the rate of change in links. Most search engines limit how quickly a site can gain connectivity. A sudden hump in in links can draw scrutiny from spam cops. There are exceptions for spike sites. He next talks about Rate of Change in content. Search engines do keep a history of the site. Duplicate detection technologies are used to find meaningful changes in site content. When a site moves IP address, it is often re-evaluated. He says this could be possible new ownership, change in parked status, search engines don’t like indexing parked domains. He closes saying that all search engines tend to use similar tactics. The core of all search engine ranking remains great content and great connectivity.

Update: HTML and PDF summary is available. Search Engine Patents On Duplicated Content and Re-Ranking Methods (PDF)

posted Phoenix in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 1:29 PM Comments (3)

Mobile Search

Detlev Johnson is the moderator of this new session. He said mobile search means delivering services down to a cell phone but also can mean a small screen device like a PDA.

Yahoo! is up first, Mihir Shah, Directory of Product Management. Yahoo! User base: 379 million users are mobile. Yahoo has 15 mobile products available across hundreds of mobile devices (communication, information and games). They have developed 50+ relationships with wireless vendors. Why now? Data services are a driver of increased ARPU for wireless carriers. Consumer adoption of enhanced handsets in growing. More enhanced handsets create opportunities for greater usage of data services. Increase in data service usage leads to a demand for more diverse content. Large growth in content makes "Directory style" browsing a pain. There is a need to easily find and access this information. Yahoo!'s goal is to extend Yahoo! services beyond the desktop. They offer user choice; WAP Search, SMS Search and Search Clients. WAP Search: First product Yahoo! has is Web Search. They took several of the most popular Web search shortcuts and applied it to WAP Search. They then introduced "transcoding" to make services more readable. How do publishers participate? Create mobile versions and submit your site to Yahoo!. Second WAP product is Yahoo! Local for Mobile, he demonstrate how it works. And the 3rd product is image search for WAP Search. Now SMS Search, which is basically a text message, send a query to 92466 and they will reply to you with the information. They added to it a "reply to refresh" interactive option. You can basically save your first message and reply to it to get a refreshed version (works well with stock quotes, airline flights). They also added to it is a link to a Web address, if wanted. They also enable you to send information from Yahoo! web to a SMS enabled phone. Choice, Shortcuts and Interactivity is what Yahoo! Mobile is about. Mobile search adoption has grown rapidly; high growth in UUs since end of 2004 (almost 100%) and search is the 3rd most used WAP Service after mail and messenger). Overall user satisfaction with the product is high. mobile.yahoo.com/search has an interactive demo for you.

Google is now up, Deep Nishar, Director of Product Management. He asked how many of you use Web browsing on your mobile device? A nice number raised hands. He then asked how many of you are delighted with that experience, no one raised their hands. He said the medium is the content and not about the Web accessible via the Web. Google had the first WAP (WML) search product in 2000. They launched SMS search late last year (2003). After they launched Google Local, then blogger mobile, Google Search & Image Search. They just introduced the Google Mobile Web search which is a separate index just for mobile content. Mobile.United.Com has a mobile enabled site for tracking flight status (and five other things that are used most often on the site). TubePlanner.com has a mobile ready site, it tells you how to get from point A to point B via subways. Bloomberg.com has time sensitive mobile information for you (btogo.com). So you see why a separate index for mobile sites can be important. Tips for bringing your content to the Mobile Web; (1) link your sites, (2) write for a standard (validate it), (3) make sure you test your site with a reasonable number of phones. Demand for mobile content is high and we need to reach the mobile users and not make them reach us.

AOL Mobile, Ken Thomas, Principal Product Manager. Mission...Great mobile experiences, easy to use for the mainstream. Context; mobile search in beta, suite of WAP services suite, and accessible via mobile portal. Mobile search issues include; too many results, irrelevant, very few mobile sites, "incomplete content" messages, text only experience, and awareness & usability of short-codes. AOL's Solution is relevance (Google Web Search, Yellow Pages Local, Pin Point Shopping) and useful (renders the WWW, images and text supported and WTAI/click to call). Web Search examples; he shows how AOL's products does a good job of rendering these sites (starbucks.com and SES pages). He then showed a local search example, with a little map. Shopping example with pin point and showed some product images. How Does it Work? They partner with InfoGin which does "Right-Sizes the Internet" for mobile phones. Mobile Matrix Transcoder technology (evaluates devices capabilities and more). Advantages; ubiquitous access, existing search behavior, efficient, makes the whole Web mobile, more compelling then text, better experience and still a "beta." Find it at http://mobile.aol.com or http://mobile.aolsearch.com/ or the desktop beta at http://beta.aol.com/.

Matthew Snyder from Nokia was next up to talk about mobile search. Nokia wants to bring value to customers, the mobile phone is a computer in hand. One device for computer and consumer electronics (phone, video, camera, radio, etc.). Number of active mobile users; by 2009 3 billion users will have mobile devices. Desktop search needed; first nokia device with hard disk coming out (on mobile devices), easy access to Web content with small screen is a technology challenge, and with mobile search client nokia can offer a distribution and customer acquisition platform for 3rd parties. mobile Search application User Experience demo: They made an actual GUI interface for the phone which can be used for Searching (they bring three Yellow page companies (eniro, yell.com and fonecta -- for those markets). They integrated an advanced mapping solution for mapping technologies.

Gary Price (SEW News Editor, ResourceShelf.com and Mobile Guru) is now up. http://tinyurl.com/e326p/ (slides at that URL) He is a dedicated mobile user, and he is a treo guy and he loves mobile. Other Services and Companies include; 4info.net (SMS), Upsnap.com, synfonic, smarter.com (Gary goes through some of these products and discusses benefits of them). Specialty Tools; FeedBeep (RSS via SMS), Answers.com, CarRentals.com, SMS Traffic Alerts via MSN Auto, Skweezer.net (makes Web pages load better on mobile), Bloglines Mobile (its great), Nextaris Mobile, Winksite (create a mobile "space"), nextBlast (live DC video traffic optimized for mobil), TrafficLand, Vazu.com (copy/paste, send from Outlook, SMS-based). Vertical Markets; national library of medicine has offered movile versions of PubMed, Merck Manual for Mobile, and LexisNexis and Westlaw. Web Designers; you must create an optimized site or realize there are transcode tools out there trying to convert your site. Opportunities; advertising (sponsored links, AOL is doing it only now), Answering machines, so where will the ads go? Branding + Answers, for example, you do a search for a sports score; "this sport score is brought to you by ABC Company." Future of mobile search is cameraphone searching (mobot.com), hold your camera up to an ad in a magazine, then info about that product will be sent back to you via SMS. So in the future you might be able to hold your camera phone up to a street sign and get info about that area.

Forum discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 8, 2005 12:57 PM Comments (9)

SES San Jose 2005 Party List

Joseph Morin, known behind the scenes as the moderator of SES parties, posted an in-depth thread with the list of known parties taking place at SES San Jose. The list covers time, place, host and what to expect. Here is an abridge version of the complete list, make sure to join the discussion.

Monday Night:
- Yahoo Search
- Verizon SuperPages.com
- Ask Jeeves
- AR/Search-formerly-eonMedia-formerly-GOTOAST

Tuesday Night:
- Google's GoogleDance IV

Wednesday Night:
- Quigo
- WebmasterRadio's SEARCHBASH 2 (InfoSearch Media, Monster Commerce, Moniker, PR Web, Text-Link-Ads, Webmaster Radio)

More information at the thread.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 4, 2005 7:58 AM Comments (0)

SES San Jose Triple Play Coverage Schedule

Yesterday I announced about our triple coverage solution for SES San Jose 05 and promised you a schedule, so you know what to expect. First thing is that this blog is on EST, and will be three hours back from the time in San Jose. So please do not expect the 9am(est) session to be posted until 12(est).

SES's Conference At a Glance found here.

Monday - August 8th - Day 1:
~ 9:00am - 10:30am
---- Mobile Search (Barry Schwartz)
---- Search Algorithms: The Patent Files (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Eye of the Storm: Lessons from large search marketers (Chris Boggs)
~ 11:00am - 12:30pm
---- Earning From Search & Contextual Ads (Barry Schwartz)
---- Weird Science: The next generation in media planning and buying (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Searcher Behavior Research Update (Chris Boggs)
~ 1:45pm - 3:15pm
---- Search APIs (Barry Schwartz)
---- Personalized Search & Search History (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- From Broad to Specific: Capitalizing on vertical search and other niche publishing opportunities (Chris Boggs)
~ 3:45pm - 5:15pm
---- Vertical Creep Into Regular Search Results (Robert Charlton see update)
---- Vox Populi: Understanding the role of consumer-generated content (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Partnering With Search Engines (Chris Boggs)

--- Yahoo! Tour & Engineer Talk Coverage (Barry Schwartz)

Tuesday - August 9th - Day 2:
~ 9:00am - 9:30am
---- Keynote Conversation with Ask Jeeves's Steve Berkowitz (Barry Schwartz & possibly dual or triple coverage on the keynote)
~ 9:45am - 11:00am
---- Fun With Dynamic Web Sites (Barry Schwartz)
---- RSS, Blogs & Search Marketing (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Ad Management: Do Humans Matter? (Chris Boggs)
~ 11:30am - 12:45pm
---- Meet The Blog Search Engines [might go to Ben's] (Barry Schwartz)
---- Should You Chase The Algorithm? (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Link Building Basics (Chris Boggs)
~ 2:00pm - 3:30pm
---- Landing Page Testing & Tuning (Barry Schwartz)
---- Ad Reps: Friend Or Foe? (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Covering SEMPO Booth [No Coverage] (Chris Boggs)
~ 4:00pm - 5:30pm
---- Indexing Summit 2: Redirects, Titles & Descriptions (Barry Schwartz)
---- Meet The News Search Engines (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Search Engine Advertising Forum (Chris Boggs)

Wednesday - August 10th - Day 3:
~ 9:00am - 10:30am
---- Converting Visitors Into Buyers (Barry Schwartz)
---- Executive Roundtable (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Break: Speaking Next Session (Chris Boggs)
~ 11:00am - 12:30pm
---- Local Search Marketing Tactics (Barry Schwartz)
---- Linking Strategies (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Speaking: Linking Strategies (Chris Boggs)
~ 1:45pm - 3:15pm
---- Copyright & Trademarks (Barry Schwartz)
---- Break: Will be at Chris's Session (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Buying and Selling Links (Chris Boggs)
~ 3:45pm - 5:15pm
---- Search Engine Q&A On Links (Barry Schwartz)
---- Local Search Ads (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Usability Clinic (Chris Boggs)

Thursday - August 11th - Day 4:
~ 9:00am - 10:15am
---- Organic Listings Forum (Barry Schwartz)
---- 'Tis The Season (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Business To Business Tactics (Chris Boggs)
~ 10:45am - 12:00pm
---- Measuring: The Time Warp (Barry Schwartz)
---- Meet The B2B Search Engines (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Meet The Crawlers: Submissions & Feeds Edition (Chris Boggs)
~ 12:45pm - 2:00pm
---- My SEM Toolbox (Barry Schwartz)
---- Shopping Search & Merchant Reputations (Ben Pfeiffer)
---- Spanish Language Search Marketing Tactics (Chris Boggs)

Disclaimer: The schedule is subject to change. Please note, there are parties at night and it is possible that we might not be able to cover every session listed on this schedule. But trust us, we will do our outmost best.

Thank you for reading!

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 3, 2005 8:01 AM Comments (3)

SES San Jose Triple Play Coverage

Next week is the big Search Engine Strategies San Jose 05 show. We have some big news for you guys. As you know, we have been providing in-depth, and basically real-time coverage of the sessions we attend. At this conference, we will be doing the same but instead of covering just one or two sessions at a time, we will be covering three out of the four tracks for each given session.

Of course you know Phoenix - Benjamin Pfeiffer. And you know me. But a new writer will be coming on for the SES coverage, his name is Chris Boggs of www.G3Group.com. Chris has some experience with live coverage, he provided the SEW Live Coverage back in late June.

Chris Boggs of www.G3Group.com is a specialist in search engine optimization and paid search advertising campaign creation and management. He also writes tutorials and articles for the G3 property www.instantposition.com.

Chris works directly with clients of the G3 group to consult them regarding many search engine marketing topics related to their websites. Chris also performs "hands-on" SEO from keyword research to content development and linking strategizing, as well as and pay-per-click (PPC) management, and is a certified Google AdWords Professional. Chris and fellow G3 SEM Anita Schott recently co-wrote "Designed to Sell: 5 Quick Steps to Successful Online Marketing."

Tomorrow, I will be posting which sessions each of us will be attending. Feel free to welcome Chris and thank both Chris and Ben for doing this. Trust me, this is far from an easy chore and they are simply doing it because the community benefits from it.

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at August 2, 2005 10:49 AM Comments (1)

SES San Jose 2005 Party Thread

Jenstar posted a thread at Search Engine Watch Forums named SES San Jose 2005: Parties, Events & Gatherings. The thread contains or will contain all the information about the Special SES Events for San Jose show. In addition, people are chatting about some of last years events and what you might not expect and some parties. :)

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at July 28, 2005 3:29 PM Comments (0)

Steve Berkowitz, CEO of Ask Jeeves, Keynote SES San Jose

The Search Engine Strategies San Jose Show is coming up soon - August 8th to be exact. Danny Sullivan just announced who the keynote speaker will be, at SES NYC it was Keynote with Jerry Yang of Yahoo!, at SES San Jose it will be Keynote with Steve Berkowitz of Ask Jeeves.

Danny has more information on this at the SES blog, great new blog if your deciding or decided to go to SES. I will be there, so will Ben - we will be providing our detailed (almost real time) coverage (with plenty of typos).

posted rustybrick in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at July 21, 2005 9:05 AM Comments (0)

Search Engine Strategies (SES) San Jose 2005 Agenda goes LIVE!

Danny Sullivan just announced the new agenda for Search Engine Strategies (SES) in San Jose 2005. This is the big one for most tech savvy webmasters and marketers. Plus the parties are phenomenal! The show will be held August 8-11, 2005 at the San Jose McEnery Convention Center. I highly recommend to register early, this show books up all hotel rooms in the area.

As part of my Hispanic SEM blogging coverage, I would like to inform you that there will be a session focused just for Spanish language SEM tactics. As described, "This session looks at how to target Spanish speakers within the US and the world through paid and organic search marketing efforts." Speakers give their presentations in English. This session was previously called "Search Marketing To Hispanics & Latin America" (also given in English). The objective is for search engine marketers in various segments reach these growing markets. For example:


  • US Hispanic companies targeting US Hispanics (example: Univison.com)

  • US American companies targeting US Hispanics (example: espanol.officedepot.com)

  • Both US Hispanic and American companies targeting Latin America as well as their own markets (examples: CNNenEspanol.com, Marriott Hotels, United Airlines, etc.)

  • Latin American companies targeting their own markets (example: esmas.com, TeRespondo.com, UOL.com, etc)

  • Latin American companies targeting all markets that include both Latin American, US Hispanic and American markets (for example: the singer Luis Miguel or the most exported beer in the world, Corona)


The opportunities are almost unlimited and it's pretty much all virgin territory with little or no competition. If you see the Internet as a way for globalization to happen with your websites, then mark down this session on your SES agenda.

posted nacho in Search Engine Strategies 2005 San Jose at June 22, 2005 8:11 PM Comments (1)


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