Google Pushed Out The Major Penguin Update (v2.0 #4)

May 23, 2013 • 9:02 am | comments (198) by twitter Google+ | Filed Under Google PageRank & Algorithm Updates

Google Penguin WaddleAs I reported last night at Search Engine Land, Penguin 2.0 / 4 is now live - this is the next generation Penguin update. As Google's Matt Cutts added, this impacts 2.3% of English queries and also impacts other languages but the percentage depends on the level of spam in those languages.

Matt officially announced it while on This Week In Google see towards the very end of episode 199.

Matt said on his blog:

We started rolling out the next generation of the Penguin webspam algorithm this afternoon (May 22, 2013), and the rollout is now complete. About 2.3% of English-US queries are affected to the degree that a regular user might notice. The change has also finished rolling out for other languages world-wide. The scope of Penguin varies by language, e.g. languages with more webspam will see more impact.

This is the fourth Penguin-related launch Google has done, but because this is an updated algorithm (not just a data refresh), we’ve been referring to this change as Penguin 2.0 internally.

As you know, we've been expecting this for some time, since its been over 6 months since the previous Penguin data refresh. Again, this is not just a refresh, but an algorithmic update.

Here are the previous updates:

There are lots of people complaining about ranking declines and some about boosts. It is too early to tell and I do expect to post a poll next week asking you if you were impacted or not.

I deeply hope you only were positively impacted by this update.

Forum discussion at Google+, Cre8asite Forums, WebmasterWorld, DigitalPoint Forums, Black Hat World and Google Webmaster Help.

Update: Matt Cutts tweeted that you can submit feedback to Google via this form about spammy sites this update missed.

Previous story: Google Site Command Temporary Issue Due To Domain Clustering


Faizaan Khan

05/23/2013 01:23 pm

Google Pushed Penguin to Push More Spam on top of SERP's.. that's what i have seen through out the day...


05/23/2013 01:34 pm

Example query?

Matt Janaway

05/23/2013 01:35 pm

Interesting that if you search for "pay day loans" (in the UK) every result as no PR, no DA, no PA... I think these are new rankings but I didn't check yesterday to confirm. Hard to give visitor results at such an early stage but most of my sites are showing increases in visitors - up to around 20%.

Stephane Brault

05/23/2013 01:37 pm

Same thing here... First 3 results are legitimate sites... the rest is just spam from the 2nd page that got to the 1st page. Most of the sites are 4 to 8 months old, havd 10's of thousands of backlinks with exact match keywords. One would have thought it would've been easy to spot those sites. They should've called it Penguin 1.001 alpha.


05/23/2013 01:41 pm

Example query? What type of neighborhood are you playing in?


05/23/2013 01:46 pm

Seeing worse clusters now, some SERP's have 3 companies doubling up, how is that better?


05/23/2013 01:51 pm

Let me give you a prime example of how bad this Penguin update has been. Go to and search for the kw - new bingo sites - and see what comes up in position 2. I website that redirects to another site, I think that's called clocking. Seriously Google?


05/23/2013 01:56 pm

I think you have to wait about 2 days to see how it goes, but wonder if we are safe areally visits affected more than 50% down now if it affects us a little competition sognifica doing something good


05/23/2013 02:17 pm

So the SERP is filled with different domains and one of them happens to redirect. How is that an example of 'how bad this update is'? Is it possible that the site redirects to another bingo site because they are rebranding, or they have switched servers/domain? Hell, it might be cloaking and if it is it will be caught and penalized as the spider crawls its rounds. This isn't a prime example of anything at all.


05/23/2013 02:33 pm

I’m very disappointed with this new Penguin update. I was originally impacted by the first update, and I’ve been playing it straight ever since to try to recover. As Matt Cutts stated recently the original Penguin update mainly effected the home page. This was clearly demonstrated for me by one of my internal pages ranking about page 4 for a main term and my homepage moved down to page 12. Since the original update I’ve built lots of new quality content, contacted webmasters to delete as many of the bad links as I could and then used the Disavow Links tool. With Penguin 2.0 I was hoping for a recovery (i.e my homepage ranking where it should above my internal pages for main terms) however nothing really has changed at all. What this seems to imply to me is that the Disavow Links tool can be used to get manual penalties removed for sites, but it will not help with a Penguin algorithm issue.

headless chicken

05/23/2013 02:34 pm

check all the casino related queries in, or it's spammer city.

Nikhil Singh

05/23/2013 02:35 pm

My site Get effect a lot :(

Jim Christian

05/23/2013 02:37 pm

Looks like nothing happened to us. Guess it pays to not buy links!


05/23/2013 02:37 pm

I got pissed on? Edit* That was R Kelly, my bad.


05/23/2013 02:39 pm

We sat on Page 20+ b/c of Penguin, then popped back to Page 6,7,8 - not sure if we call this a recovery? Do you think we can move now with proper SEO?

Praveen Sharma

05/23/2013 02:41 pm

Spammers are still ranking high.


05/23/2013 02:47 pm

Or you disavowed all the links that were previously (before the original penguin update) pointing to you and assisting in your homepage ranking well. Now that the links are devalued (through the disavow tool or algorithmically through Penguin) your site is back where it, according to the algo, should be ranking. If you want to see recovery you need to accumulate other ranking metrics (time on site, return/unique visitors, bounce rates, etc...) and some naturally earned links. You were standing on a box (spammy links) that helped you to be seen over the crowd. That box is now gone (devalued) and you are back in the crowd again. I'm not trying to dismiss the work you have put into content, but you need to try and understand what penguin did to you in the first place... ...judging by your post, you aren't there yet.


05/23/2013 02:50 pm

For what query?!?!!!?! How many people are going to post 'spammers are ranking' and not post the queries that they are seeing these results on? I am willing to bet that most (90%+) are in niches that have always and will always be a spam mess. Online gambling of any sort; penis pills of any sort; payday loans of any sort; cosmetics and other affiliate heavy SERPs...


05/23/2013 02:56 pm

Good update for sure going right way now, my good content sites without paid links all moved up, and the few i had with paid links all go down. Good work Google


05/23/2013 03:00 pm

No that’s not the case. The homepage has more authority from ‘real links’ than any of my internal pages. Yes before Penguin 1.0 it was ranking higher than it should due to ‘Bad Links’ but after these links have been dismissed with the Disavow Links tool the home page should be ranking higher than my internal pages for main word terms. I’m not stating where the homepage should rank in search, I’m stating that it should be ranking above my internal pages that are less relevant than the homepage. And because it still doesn’t after Penguin 2.0, it shows me that the Disavow Links tool has not worked for me.

Barry Schwartz

05/23/2013 03:02 pm

Seriously, no comments about the animated GIF on this story?

Marie Haynes

05/23/2013 03:11 pm

Try "seo company"


05/23/2013 03:23 pm

Hey Barry, later in the week could you do a pole to see how those people who used the Disavow Links tool fared after Penguin 2.0?


05/23/2013 03:24 pm

How long should we wait to see our results in SERP's? at least a few days or do you think rankings are stable now?

Praveen Sharma

05/23/2013 03:27 pm

hahaha... we can see your efforts Barry. I think you know the secret - HOW TO PLAY WITH PENGUIN?

Yepi Didi

05/23/2013 03:27 pm

thanks. I hope to be able to use common


05/23/2013 03:35 pm

ethalon, these guys are still in 2003. They still think that making certain steps, according to the instruction from another "SEO guru" they found on the internet, they must be ranked high. "I’ve built lots of new quality content, contacted webmasters to delete as many of the bad links as I could and then used the Disavow Links tool" - do step one ..... checked - do step two ...... checked - do step three.....checked No results ? Hm ...... Google sucks ........ LOL )))

Praveen Sharma

05/23/2013 03:41 pm

As Marie said, check 'seo company' and you will see results like cheapseocompany and bestseocompanies


05/23/2013 03:41 pm

Yes that is very strange Google don't remove them??? When i look Canada word online casinos on 1st page it same person that has many of the first spots, I even see some on 1st page have total same design. That should be easy to catch, and semes they doing it to many keywords.


05/23/2013 03:46 pm

Nothing I’ve stated is from another ‘SEO Guru”, I’m stating information Google themselves provided of how to clean up a site and recover from a Penguin penalty. I’m trying to have a sensible conversation on the subject unlike yourselves who just seem to be concerned with plaguing this forum with useless comments and not actually reading or understanding the points raised.


05/23/2013 03:47 pm

Ethalon, you are spot on there, a lot of people are having difficulty understanding this.


05/23/2013 03:47 pm

It was said to you and others tens of times at least - Penguin update can't recover anything a priori ...


05/23/2013 03:48 pm

You have no points. It was said to you and others tens of times at least - Penguin update can't recover anything a priori ...


05/23/2013 03:50 pm

I understand the point Ethalon is raising, but that was no the point I was making. I’m describing how my homepage still ranks below my less relevant content pages. I’m not stating where my content should rank within the search results.


05/23/2013 03:52 pm

Just tried SEO company. Not a single repeat on the first page; a few companies offering services, one or two seo company reviews and even a blog post from seroundtable... ...I am depersonalizing the results to the best of my ability and things don't look bad at all for such a broad search. Could you tell me what issues you are having with these SERPs? What isn't 'right' about them, what should be showing for this term?


05/23/2013 03:55 pm

man, you want to have " sensible conversation ", but you're talking like child ... really, no offence ... "homepage still ranks below my less relevant content pages" soooooooooooooooooo ????????????? How did you make the conclusion, that this is Penguin related ?? Nothing to talk here .....


05/23/2013 03:55 pm

Maybe Google has decided that your homepage, since it was hit for breaking guidelines, deserves less trust and that is factored into the sauce. Matt has made it pretty clear that the PR you see and the PR/other factors that they use to indicate trust are two different things...I would assume the 'trust' you don't see is more important to rank. This may all be out-of-my-bum, but it seems to make sense to me.


05/23/2013 04:19 pm

Still not clear what has exactly happened. Domain authority given importance, Social media accounts URL ranking better than past.


05/23/2013 04:29 pm

There is no recovery. The disavow tool does not work. Build a new site...Sorry.

Yogesh Godse

05/23/2013 04:32 pm

Stop Spamming


05/23/2013 04:32 pm

laughable update... in my sector 25 of the top 30 results are spam sites - try type "online casinos" into google anywhere. I was hoping for a cleanup so proper sites could rank again. PENGUIN 2 = FAIL, GOOGLE = Going Backwards.


05/23/2013 04:35 pm

Type in anything and its probably spam that ranks. Not a single spammer or hacker got hit. Only a few decent sites run by decent people. The guys at Black Hat World must be laughing their collective asses off.


05/23/2013 04:39 pm

Look at your niche. Online casino SERPs will never be clean unless the results are hand picked and forced static. There is too much money to be made from too many people for the blackhatters to not eat this SERP up. There are hundreds of people with thousands of sites lined up and waiting to go. It's a churn and burn niche you are trying to play in. "PENGUIN 2 = FAIL, GOOGLE = Going Backwards." That is your mindset and that is your problem.


05/23/2013 04:45 pm

I have a friend that has very black hat one pager with paid links and he is ranking high for a 20K exact searches keyword, I had a white hat site with tons of quality content and social signals and I am ranking #30 instead of the previous #8...What to say, maybe I will go blackhat...MAYBE


05/23/2013 04:48 pm

even Viagra


05/23/2013 04:49 pm

ethalon, if you're today Google defender, then watch : Mercedes repair Marbella Spain Very simple query, isn't it ? But just two relevant results from the first 50. Others are just irrelevant - sale, rent, luxury cars, etc ... Any thoughts ? Have to admit, that two years ago it was impossible at all to find repair shop by this query.


05/23/2013 04:50 pm

Ugh, query example?


05/23/2013 04:58 pm

Sorry, just found the third relevant result in the first 50 )


05/23/2013 05:00 pm

I am completely unfamiliar with the area (sadly my experience in Europe is relegated to Ireland/Northern Ireland), how many Mercedes repair centers are even located in that general geographic region? How many of those shops have any web presence at all? Of those who have a web presence, how many have a quality web presence? Not being hostile, just curious and not wanting to speculate in total ignorance, ha. Also, Google defender? Ha! More like dude who is sick of seeing ridiculous claims/ maybe some blunt, honest truth will force some people to start attempting to understand instead of yelling about how they can't rank above spammers in niches like online casinos.


05/23/2013 05:05 pm

Disavow tool is for idiots, can't believe anyone actually used it, hooray for Grey Hat, happy days, not affected again!


05/23/2013 05:13 pm

So how long for these updates to fully settle in order to judge how we did? Is it over or is it better to give it a couple weeks or so? anyone know......


05/23/2013 05:22 pm

" Also, Google defender? Ha! More like dude who is sick ... " Can I call you Bro ? .... )) re query ... Marbella is like Nice in France or Miami in USA - luxury place ... Anyway, no doubt this SERP is not good ... it's bad. However, have to admit again, that at least it's possible to find repair shop. Two years ago one could only rent a luxury car by this query. The sidenote. I watched Google Analytics today and refreshed the page after some time. The total of visitors became less, than it was 20 mins before ) Well, ok glitches are possible even on Google, but I caught myself on the thought, that I don't trust Google as much as it was 5 years ago. I just can't rely on it when I need repair shop or analytics or probably anything. This made me sad .... a bit ) Just a thought.


05/23/2013 05:25 pm

I would say 3-4 days for sure. Depends of how broad is your traffic.


05/23/2013 05:27 pm

OK thanks for the reply! we were hit hard first time around, then we jumped up big but still pg 5ish so hopefully we continue to rise but who knows :)


05/23/2013 05:46 pm

Yes, not all SERPs (not just the spam-tastic ones) are perfect. I am surprised to hear that in such a luxury centric area that there aren't more repair shops ranking. Maybe it is worth scanning the phonebook, finding all the non-ranking shops and evaluating their sites. I am betting that a lot of them could rank, if they even exist ha, with some on-page help and some content assistance. Money is waiting to be made Anti...and it wants to be made by you. "Oh Anti, your wallet looks so comfy" said all the money.


05/23/2013 05:47 pm

"Type in anything..." I have spent the last few hours checking a crap ton of keywords. Almost nothing but non-spammy SERPs.


05/23/2013 05:52 pm

ok so if our site recovered and what looks like the filter was removed but we are still on Page 3-5 down from page 15+ - do we have to wait for another Penguin refresh / algo update to see movement? or with proper SEO we should see better results with every crawl?


05/23/2013 05:53 pm

here is an post.Penguin image with a competitive query, with spam results on 1st page. Do I have to mention it's overcrowded with scrapers, mostly form China and Vietnam...


05/23/2013 06:02 pm

Start now, unless you like waiting forever. The algorithm continuously evaluates pages, some pages will experience changes in the serps quicker than others. You will not necessarily see a change after every time Google crawls your site. You never know how long it's gonna take, just do your best on proper SEO.


05/23/2013 06:02 pm

many people think they will recover with this update. However, I think this update has very little to do with first Penguin update and thus most people will not recover.


05/23/2013 06:02 pm

)) ... I'm in another niche. Just unsatisfied consumer in this case )


05/23/2013 06:04 pm

But that money, it is so lonely.


05/23/2013 06:08 pm

ethalon said below : " If you want to see recovery you need to accumulate other ranking metrics (time on site, return/unique visitors, bounce rates, etc...) and some naturally earned links." Nothing to add more.


05/23/2013 06:09 pm

Lonely Money ??? Impossible ... )


05/23/2013 06:20 pm

I have posted the query with the image and still await for experts review. Take a look few posts above...

Marie Haynes

05/23/2013 07:23 pm

Take a look at the backlinks of the top sites - filled with low quality links anchored with "seo company"


05/23/2013 07:31 pm

Since finding out it's actually pronounced JIF, I can no longer look at GIFs -- I mean, JIFs. I mean..


05/23/2013 07:38 pm

What can I say, nothing is perfect. Maybe they just haven't been hit by the algo yet?

Brian Mease

05/23/2013 07:56 pm

Barry, spectacular penguin :)

Alan Rabinowitz

05/23/2013 08:18 pm

I believe many top terms like these in the SEO industry are manually manipulated. I get mostly local results a mix of small and mid size firms, Oddly, the big brands that I'd expect to see seem filtered out. Unlike most other industries which seems to be more authority based results. I wonder if Google will simply become a way to find the sites you already know. :) Why does Wikipedia and Amazon rank for everything and anything? --->Seriously type in "anything" I already know how to get to those sites. - ha!


05/23/2013 09:26 pm

" I already know how to get to those sites " Yup, you're not alone in this wonder.

George Wyngaardt

05/23/2013 09:35 pm

I wrote this decent article about the PEnuin 2.0 update and what to expect , check it out

Stephane Brault

05/23/2013 10:43 pm

It's actually painful to read with the website layout


05/24/2013 12:02 am

Ever thought that maybe "scrapers" are doing well because they have good user engagement? Think about it... When someone visits a scraper site, they have more content to look through than they do on a small site with less than 100 pages of content. It's like why Yelp ranks as opposed to local businesses. See, I'd rather visit Yelp and browse through thousands of businesses than have to actually visit thousands of sites to find what I am looking for. Another example... People also like lists of things, e.g., "10 awesome WordPress plugins". How I handle things: Instead of trying to change the serps or make sense of them, I try my best to come up with a strategy that evens the playing field.


05/24/2013 12:11 am

His mindset was set by Google. Aren't they the ones claims of going all Rambo on spam?

Jack T

05/24/2013 12:35 am

Agreed. Change up the site buddy.


05/24/2013 12:48 am

Why should they reveal their niche? Why don't you reveal your identity? I think it only takes one answer to answer both of these questions. I see plenty of spam, but I'm not a snitch and I'm not interested in sending invitations to spammers either... Isn't snitching what got us all in this mess? Everyone was complaining about how bad the serps were and now those same people are complaining because they lost their rankings.

Josh Hardwick

05/24/2013 12:57 am

I've figured out the secret. Are you ready for it? Here it goes... 1. Create a site that you actually care about and write fantastic content for it. 2. Completely ignore all Google updates. 3. Wonder what all the fuss is about. Done. The bottom line is that basically, if you're feeling worried whenever Google announces new updates, you're doing something wrong. Yours truly, someone who's probably about to get hit by Penguin 2.0 lolololololol

Nick Ker

05/24/2013 01:31 am

A dancing penguin graphic? Really?

Barry Schwartz

05/24/2013 01:31 am

Not dancing, waddling

Nick Ker

05/24/2013 01:36 am

Oops. Commented on it above before I saw this.

Justin Clark

05/24/2013 03:37 am

well barry you should use this image: instead of your waddling image :D


05/24/2013 04:51 am

I've been hit by 2.0! Here's what I've figured out. My lower rankings are broad but not universal. Only about 35% of my keywords have dropped. It seems to be specifically targeting only the keywords (or exact match anchor text) that have been spammed.

Allena Abas

05/24/2013 05:41 am

I checked keyword 'Wholesale smoking pipes' and result is showing a facebook page‎ Also its in 6th rank so should we believe that Google will also show results from facebook or considering facebook also as a normal website?


05/24/2013 05:42 am

one thing is to scrape addresses of businesses and another to scrape premium images and offer them for free. If that is legal, I'll be glad to create scraper, as it takes no more than a day to do it. It makes perfect sense that I will have better user experience if I copy all images from Flickr and Deviant Art and Photobucket and put them in one place. If i add to this all Getty images I would offer more images than all these sites together and user will have better experience because he can find them in one place, not four. Question is only is it legal and if it is not why would Google favor a site that does illegal things. So yelp is in no way good site to compare to...


05/24/2013 05:51 am

Finally after tornado in oklahoma their is another tornado in SEO Community......LOL


05/24/2013 07:08 am

I think, Google Want to finish SEO work for doing these updates regular bases. Now Everyone want to lead or increase online sales then go for Google Adwords and because of this, Google revenue will increase. No Body knows Exactly what do he do after on-page optimization. Now it is very difficult to rank any website with number of keywords. SEO Business is going fall due to these updates. We can understand, tricks are not allowed but no one can give you grantee which link is right according to Google Algo. Regards Parul


05/24/2013 07:09 am

Yeah, well said

Sourabh Rana

05/24/2013 07:13 am



05/24/2013 07:26 am

Very well said parul. I am completely agree with your comments.


05/24/2013 07:36 am

For a moment think like you are google. Then you will feel like these changes are necessary to fight against spam, black hat seo etc. However, google still far behind kicking spammers out of ranking. As plenty of smap website still ranking very well in various keywords.


05/24/2013 08:04 am

Hey parul , if you know everything why don't you switch on adwords. to fighting against spam and quality search updates are neccessary.


05/24/2013 08:27 am

I am not against spammer. Just think and analysis, how can you know your website any link is ok it is possible that link not good according to good. Google should ignore those links which are not good according to their algo instead of applying penalty to any one site. Any one can make bad links for your website and you can face problem because of this. Regards Parul


05/24/2013 08:28 am

I know everything and we are fighting against spam last 2 years but Google should ignore those links which are not good according to their algo instead of applying penalty to any one site. Regards Parul


05/24/2013 09:07 am

You are correct but what is the process to recover from penguin update

Belinda Summers

05/24/2013 09:43 am

Agree Josh! Nothing to worry about if your doing what is right. Compelling, interactive, relevant content is something that every marketers should work out. Observed that while checking my keywords on Google.

Ved Tiwari

05/24/2013 10:31 am

Exact keyword match anchor text websites has been hit very hard by Google in this penguin update...

Miranda Kerr

05/24/2013 11:06 am

Must put pressure on governments to block Google What Google is doing updates from abuse of all laws


05/24/2013 11:11 am

I agree with you Bhaskar, it is necessary for spammers....


05/24/2013 11:19 am

Have you checked the Google indexing for your website pages lately? If not, go on have a look, you are up for a surprise. I have got one interesting blog . Guys visit this blog too i don't know but its informative in terms of indexing. Does google really looking for making any major change in indexing as well.


05/24/2013 11:21 am

The Online Casino Link at the top left of your page, looks brilliant it seems


05/24/2013 11:22 am

Ohh yes you are right pratik. But no idea whats this. May be something going wrong in terms of indexing.


05/24/2013 11:43 am

Marie, that made me laugh a lot. 'SEO Company' will always return a list of spammers..


05/24/2013 12:11 pm

Simply stating a search query will do nothing but shed some light on the situation. Almost every time someone is complaining about seeing horrible SERPs full of spam it turns out the query is related to online gambling, payday loans, or other spam/scam niches. The fact of the matter seems to be that MOST times 'Google sux, this update didn't fix spam!!1!', comes from someone who is playing in neighborhoods where the spam will never stop being a problem. Maybe they don't understand this and are trying to rank there because that's where the quick money is. Maybe some honesty about the situation and NOT line after line of accusatory b.s. and inane theories. I have my share of theories and ideas, but I don't pretend there is some sinister motive behind the current situation (see my thoughts on Googles one-for-all vs. scaling of penalties for brands vs. small shops). Reveal my identity, isn't this the internet? I post here by this handle and that should be just fine. Wait, were you calling me a snitch? That's neato.

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 12:24 pm



05/24/2013 12:26 pm

I didn't really have time to look at the site to be able to say whether what they are doing is legal or not. Are you sure they are stealing images and not using images that they are allowed to republish? For example, did you know that uses a Creative Commons License? I know I saw this a few weeks ago and it caught me by surprise. Either way, I am not a lawyer so I don't want to pass judgement on them. I also wouldn't want Google's algo to penalize a site without knowing for sure whether the owner of the site is doing something wrong. I mean how would Google know if the site owner and the rights owners of the images are under some type of agreement? Do you really want Google to do something like this? I don't think Google should be the ones to make such a decision. IMO Google should only take action if a rights owner complains to them.

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 12:26 pm

There is none, apparently

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 12:36 pm

Same with me. They don't seem to like posts showing actual queries and picture with the details. Its good proof, but its not posted. Weird

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 12:38 pm

"Guess it pays to not buy links" - Then don't buy Google Adwords either. Its just another link you paid for. But its a Google link so that makes it okay?

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 12:41 pm

Words of truth - All Google is doing is shoving more sites behind its Penguin filter. Which is good news because those that were not hit 24 Apr 2012, are hit now and those not hit now will be hit later. All good - eventually people will collectively had enough - #blockgoogle


05/24/2013 12:42 pm

I'm not asking you to reveal your identity. I am simply saying that people have the right to keep things private if they'd like. I was just trying to prove a point. As for spam, I have seen spam in some serps so it's not as uncommon as you make it seem, but I don't want to post the query here because a) I don't want to reveal the niche and b) I am not a snitch. As for the snitch thing... I wasn't calling you a snitch. I think my point was clear enough. Again my point: just because someone doesn't want to reveal the query doesn't necessarily mean that they are making up the part about Google's serps being spam. I also wouldn't want to think about someone as a spammer just because they are complaining about Google.

Faizaan Khan

05/24/2013 12:49 pm

in case, you have not covered yesterday's Barry post, read them again :) Matt said, index will be live back in sometime next week !! do not worry !!


05/24/2013 01:19 pm

here is just a small proof that it is illegal- Another proof is backlinks profile which would put to shame most ruthless black hatters. But why am I saying this? Some people will find excuses for this even if the owner tells them he stole these images, so there is no point. But because it is so acceptable, honest guys could start doing the same thing and then we will have bigger mess in search than we have now. If this is business policy which gets you to page 1, let's do it. To clone this scraper cannot take more than 2 days even if it has 200k pages of stolen content. Will I be liable to anyone because I cloned a site that steals content no one cares about? With current mindset I guess no. If this site gets away with publishing stolen content, what kind of moron would produce content and publish it on its own website. I guess it's time for me to start my newly created scraper script and clone this MF.

Marie Haynes

05/24/2013 01:19 pm

I totally get that. My point though is that most people feel that Penguin will get sites that have over used their keywords as anchor text. Obviously Penguin isn't getting these sites. But I understand that the algo is still learning. Eventually these types of links will no longer be effective.


05/24/2013 01:30 pm

You are an idiot !

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 01:33 pm

What I have noticed is that sites with many homepage directory paid links (in the hundreds) have only dropped say from position 1 to 4. On April 2012, the drop was from 1 to 40, much more radical. I also noticed in real estate searches showing a whole list of the same domain, advertising companies like, or

Laura Grace

05/24/2013 01:57 pm

Make sure to use a soft g


05/24/2013 02:13 pm

I've seen the opposite

Thomas Brewer

05/24/2013 02:20 pm

Plus one on this. Those 3 sites dominate real estate nationally now. The sites offer no intrinsic value to the consumer. Real Estate local professionals are being shut out by Google now. I left a reply in Matt's blog requesting a why on this. I will not get it however I could not agree more. This is about money not results. Google will tell you local is important. Local has a very low click through rate and is not effective. I did not get effected by the latest Penguin run at all. No up or down. That being said I have a quality site that ranks just below the national sites. Looks really difficult to get past them now. That is sad because they provide no value and have inaccurate information.

Stephane Brault

05/24/2013 02:25 pm

Build another website. I've got my Penguin penalty revoked a couple of weeks before this update and yet I got hit again.

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 02:34 pm

Thomas, and are advertising companies. They are not live real estate agents on the ground in a local market. If Google showed a Yellowpage real estate section, it would have the same affect. The customer still needs to select an agent who may or may not be a local agent. This is the 'run around' Google chose to offer. All 3 mentioned have Google Ads on their menu's. As you know, most real estate agents avoid placing those spammy looking Google Ad's (Paid Backlinks) on their sites. #blockgoogle

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 04:12 pm

Staphane how did you manage to get your "Penguin penalty revoked"??

Barry Schwartz

05/24/2013 04:13 pm

A couple weeks before this update? :) Then it wasn't Penguin. It was something else.


05/24/2013 04:46 pm

@vedtiwari:disqus there are lots of EMD's are ranking in search results.


05/24/2013 05:38 pm

I disagree. I saw movement and many notices sent out 1-2 weeks prior to the official launch date of Penguin 2 (4.0) - same as I saw in Penguin 1.0 April 2012. They were doing something before and testing it (as it appears) before they pushed the little red button. I strongly believe that elements of Penguin are pushed out before they claim.


05/24/2013 06:05 pm

I noticed a huge drop in traffic from approx 1-2 weeks ago, I was getting around 1500 hits a day and now it's dropped to around 600. I just have a small self help blog that I've had going for around 7.5 years. It's never nice when your site takes that kind of hit :-(

Mike Wade

05/24/2013 06:36 pm

They advertise but do give you transaction dates on properties and estimates of value. Local real estate professionals being shut out? C'mon that's whee you are mistaken. They thrive with 1000s of discussions with agents and mortgage people talking to prospects who have questions. But since those 3 sites are on the stock market you know there were behind the scenes talks of how to just show them. But again, they are huge in social media, Don't overlook that aspect.

Graham Ginsberg

05/24/2013 07:22 pm

Mike, you're likely not familiar with the real estate field (looks like you're a mortgage guy). Local agents pay for DIRECT feeds to the source and update their site every few minutes while advertising sites generally do it usually much less frequently. That is the first point why RETS feed agent sites are far superior to advertising sites. The info is fresh and reliable. In an aggressive market, as we have in my area, getting a contract in before your competition is key or you lose out. Another point is most people are looking for inventory or looking what has sold in an area. They are not looking to chat with an agent. You can add Zopim chat to your site and it will scare people away more than engage them. And yet another point....Most sellers of real estate do not want comments around their properties (blog comments), and for good reason, its not professional and if not monitored can lead to legal issues. Its just a matter of time before those advertising sites will be stripped of inventory and remain blogging real estate sites, which is fine with me. If you are not an active agent in a particular state, you have no business trying to advertise property, unless the seller put it there themselves. We, as licensed agents with the state are monitored and work under laws of the profession. What profession does zillow and trulia fall under? If you objected to how your property was shown, who wold the consumer file against? You cannot compare a professional real estate website to an advertising website that is primarily for blogging.

Rob Lance

05/24/2013 08:23 pm

Look at the simple term "loans". In the top 4 pages of results, the same network of sites, with fake 4.8 star reviews occupy about 10 positions. Absolutely ridiculous.

Jack SEO Consultant - Eemes

05/24/2013 08:27 pm

Welcome to PENGUIN2.0! Hey barry i had initially given 2 dates if you remember when google will release its algo. I had said May 23rd and May 29 :) My judgement has come true! I knew this very well ahead, its coming. Now you see in the coming weeks say 15 days later you will find many drops in rankings, becz those sites who have heavily depend on LINK NETWORKS will face huge drop in rankings. Google has slapped the Link network community hard this time. Google has targeted the BACKLINKS Arena! However this time Penguin2.0 is very interesting.

Mike Wade

05/24/2013 08:57 pm

Hi Graham, Well, no I am not just a mortgage guy. I sold property too and still try :) in this sellers market which is the most ridiculous I have ever seen. 35 offers or more within hours. Even industry people cannot buy let alone their clients. Yes, you are correct Trulia and Zillow's info is not accurate when it comes to active, pending, or back-up. The sales history is a good function and the Q&A part. I would also be glad to see some restrictions of how they advertise. Do we see a Bear Stearns type-collapse with these sites later. I am surprised let them bypass them. It seems there would be more of a fight since as far as I know, they are not licensed in all 50 states yet have homeowner listings. You know the wealthy $10M homeowners don't want their home listed on Zillow, just Sothebys.


05/24/2013 10:28 pm

As usual ... veterinarians, writers, designers, sellers, housewives ... everyone knows how the web business should be run. Now two real estate agents somehow decided, that, being a licensed agents, they can also succeed in web development. Guys, try to understand - web development is ANOTHER BUSINESS. It requires ANOTHER SKILLS. You can't succeed in both. That's why you can't understand why these websites are on top. You just don't have appropriate skills. Be good realtor. Forget about the business you have no any clue about. It was possible to run both businesses earlier. But this time is gone.


05/24/2013 11:17 pm

Even these guys finally understood, that they need another skills )

Joe Moore

05/25/2013 01:39 am

I have seen no real movements on my clients as i did not in the last one either.. This just to me means white hat works and if your doing the rite things you will remain safe. i used to flip out wondering if my clients would tank. Now i can go golfing and not worry about it i seem to have survived everything they throw. DONT get me wrong though my affiliate sites are a different story those vanished in Google and gained in Yahoo but they are just affiliate sites anyway so does not matter much. Stick to Quality paid directories,press distribution and mix in some social blogging and social signals with few guest posts on strong sites and your good to go. The cost of all this of course it gets pricey but i would rather spend a bit more on my clients and have them long term then get nailed by the Google hammer and have no business to run. Cheers Joe

Nirav Vyas

05/25/2013 04:45 am

What I have noticed is that sites with many homepage directory paid links (in the hundreds) have only dropped say from position 1 to 4. On April 2012, the drop was from 1 to 40, much more radical.

the sniga

05/25/2013 05:03 am

Matt has done bad job that he added a form to submit a feedback. Anyone can complaint about competitors by showing little missed things and then you can get manual penalty if you got in this case...


05/25/2013 03:55 pm

Spam, spam, spam, spam -- that's what's at the top of almost every Google search I've done today (although I don't do many as I use Bing). One thing I noticed is all those sites that are cut and pasting entire press releases are now at the top of Google - HUNDREDS of them. So, basically, worthless search results. Ah well.....Bing it On :)


05/25/2013 03:58 pm

Yep, they're a huge monopoly that are now favoring massive businesses that pay them millions of dollars in advertising. They're already being looked at in Europe, as Europe is much stricter at what they will allow companies to do and, overall, the EU does NOT like Google. The US doesn't care, as Google pays millions of dollars in kickbacks to US senators. Me? I just don't use Google as their search results are worthless. After all, if I wanted to see nothing but TripAdvisor and eHow that's where I'd be going.


05/25/2013 06:51 pm

Barry and readers, i wrote this article to share with you I would like you to tell me what do you think about Bounce Rate (i had an strage case) and if penguin is still working...Thanks (i lots 50% of my traffic since march 18th and yesterday)


05/25/2013 08:10 pm

Hi Barry I've been following your blog for some time and decided to pipe up this time around because it looks like this update still has a few holes which I'm sure are still being worked on. As an example, redirects to a url which is loaded with the target keyword and at the bottom of the homepage, under 'What's Going On?', you'll notice the keywords are stuffed without mercy and yet the site ranks #1 lol. I was always under the impression that keyword stuffing was against the Google guidelines but maybe I misread that or misunderstand but I stand to be corrected.:)

Noticias de Hoy

05/26/2013 07:21 am

Unluckily Google is contradicting his Google SEO guide regarding the Title tag , Also for some searches I have done I get 2011 results. It's a mess and they screwed up once again.


05/26/2013 02:27 pm

The pengiun update is really hitting me badly, my traffic is very low, i don't know if there is any way to get back to my traffic. Donatus

George Wyngaardt

05/26/2013 02:38 pm

Perform a backlink analysis and disavow bad links. Start building new quality links to your website.

George Wyngaardt

05/26/2013 02:41 pm

I think, I will invest in a redesign, sorry about that

George Wyngaardt

05/26/2013 02:43 pm

lol , I was hacked through a plugin or even the theme, don't know how to get rid of it. I value your opinion so I think I will change the theme

Jordan DeLozier

05/26/2013 03:14 pm

Seeing the same results for many searches now. This update made Google much worse. Bing still shows decent results.

Muneeb Siddiqui

05/26/2013 07:41 pm

Start proper link building format and choose best links for linking your site,

Graham Ginsberg

05/26/2013 08:13 pm

Keyword stuffing works very well with dated sites that have been doing it for years. None of the updates (animals) have hurt their rankings. This latest Google update only sightly affected those who bought paid links. What makes absolute sense with Google is that nothing makes sense, that is unless you buy pay-per-click backlinks from Google. All links other than Google links are baaaad links. #blockgoogle

Graham Ginsberg

05/26/2013 08:15 pm

Google doesn't care about bounce rate. This is my observation. Its a big problem because it is a great determining factor which is ACTUALLY a good site for the customer. I have such a site and yet got hammered a year ago :-(

Graham Ginsberg

05/26/2013 08:17 pm

What form where?

Graham Ginsberg

05/26/2013 08:22 pm

Encourage awareness of the tyranny of Google and #blockgoogle. Only when many website managers follows the lead of Facebook, that blocks Google, will Google lose content and it will allow for a new more powerful unblocked search engine to start all over again. Google is burning their wick very fast and its a short life expectancy for the greedy company.


05/26/2013 08:43 pm

I think you're right about the aged sites not being penalised for abusing certain guidelines which translates to the fact that they can get away with quite a lot whereas the small guy only has to make one mistake and the site is heavily hit. All in all a bit of a biased system but then again, monopolies are usually like that. I reverted to PPC some time ago to supplement my optimisation efforts as it's looking more and more like Google stands to gain heavily through these updates by driving people to use Adwords. Quite clever really. We can only hope that Google starts treating all websites equally through future updates.

Graham Ginsberg

05/26/2013 10:48 pm

I hate to break this to you so late in your career "Anti-SEO", but there is no legitimate SEO profession IMO. Its akin to a snake oil salesman. Because the rules are controlled by someone else (now its Google's turn). The so-called, self-appointed SEO guru, is at best an interpreter of cause and affect. I don't know how anyone can honesty take money for services like this when they know full well that results change daily and are completely out of their control/unreliable/unpredictable/without warranties or guarantees. Imagine going to a doctor to treat your life threatening cancer and you know that God changes the laws every day and you maybe affected differently than your friend for the same illness? Would you pay for a service like that? I wouldn't. We pay for medicine or a service because their is an expectation of positive result and for that we willingly to offer compensation. If SEO companies were honest about this unpredictability and diminished hope for ever lasting success, nobody would pay them because the probability of a successful relationship is extremely low.


05/27/2013 01:22 am

Exactly : - there is no legitimate SEO profession ; - real estate agent has no appropriate knowledge to be successful in web business, same as web developer has no appropriate knowledge to be successful in real estate business ; - lets be professionals in our own businesses ; - lets avoid flood in appropriate forums, keeping in mind that we can't say anything smart, having inappropriate skills. I swear not to participate in discussions of real estate agents related to real estate business on professional forums/blogs/etc. Can you swear, that you will not participate in web developers discussions related to web development on professional forums/blogs/etc ?

Graham Ginsberg

05/27/2013 02:13 am

By 'Anti-SEO', he asks - "Can you swear, that you will not participate in web developers discussions related to web development on professional forums/blogs/etc ?" I am sorry for your suffering. It must be very difficult for someone with your condition to bypass my posts. You feel an urge simmering inside the inner depths of your bowels that causes you to react, to answer, to give some response, be it significant, irrelevant, off-topic or not. Just respond and thats it. You have a compulsion disorder you're probably unaware of and need to work on fighting it with every fiber of your being. 'Anti-SEO', I am here to help you recover from your addiction. Instead of me agreeing to your terms, I promise to exacerbate my posts so you, will indeed find the urge once again to respond. After some time, God willing, you will train yourself to ignore my posts with a confident smile and enjoy the rest of your day, like most normal people do. With that said, I anticipate your off-topic response and understand that under your present condition of duress, sympathize that its all you have to offer.

Diana Watson

05/27/2013 07:07 am

My site is hit badly by google update.

Awadhesh Pandey

05/27/2013 08:31 am

Now what should i do for my site after this penguin update.

Alan Smith

05/27/2013 09:15 am

For now my site is ok :)


05/27/2013 10:33 am

I don’t think it has done an accurate job. The websites which are following spam link building techniques, still ranking on high positions.


05/27/2013 11:24 am

"to ignore my posts ... like most normal people do" Oh, you write here so normal people would ignore your posts .... ?Sorry I disturbed you. Just tried to be polite.

Syed Waqas Bukhari

05/27/2013 11:46 am

Hello Barry! I've one simple question to ask, "content" on the web that's duplicated from Privacy policies, terms of service, shipping policies, return policies... all those "legalese" pages are going to be substantially similar for large numbers of sites. So! is there any chance to get penalized by Google to having duplicated content? Please reply

Samad Aslam Khan

05/27/2013 12:15 pm

I'm just following Google SEO Starter Guide since it was launched and since then none of my website is hit by Google Update. Whenever there's some update, people cry but I smile because every time when I check my sites, I find some boosts except this time it declined my traffic by only 2%. So I can say I'm safe.


05/27/2013 01:10 pm

This update is effected my website so i want to remove this panality give me best solutation......!

Graham Ginsberg

05/27/2013 01:13 pm

IMO the duplicate content will be ignored and won't or shouldn't rank

Graham Ginsberg

05/27/2013 01:14 pm

Did you get a follow backlink?


05/27/2013 10:20 pm

You free to keep thinking that way...untill you get slapped. Granted, this update helped my rankings accross the board, but saying it's because I blindly follow G's guidlines would be foolish in my humble opinion. Surving this update was a blessing...who knows whats gonna happen in the future. Regardless of whether you follow Googles so called guidelines, you WILL GET SLAPED sooner or later...

Daniel Rusling

05/28/2013 05:46 am

Google is doing intelligent changes in their search algorithm to hit back spammers who used to rank on top before Panda and Penguin updates. Google wants to keep their position intact as #1 search engine by removing spam websites out of SERP. Daniel Rusling


05/28/2013 06:10 am

Well for one thing comment spamming is probably not a great start!


05/28/2013 06:12 am

LOL this post has become a spammers paradise. Barry you better watch out before you get one of those granular spam actions!


05/28/2013 10:10 am

You do realise that links here are nofollow?? Nice try..


05/28/2013 10:14 am

Hi Syed, This is called boilerplate text and Google is well aware of this - imo Google doesn't take boilerplate into account when looking at duplicate content issues. If you want to play it safe use Structured Data. ( Or alternatively, slap a meta noindex onto these pages. Who wants them indexed anyway.


05/28/2013 10:17 am

Read Barry's article...


05/28/2013 10:24 am

Hang on, do you really think that is how it works? There are probably only a few reactions I can imagine if you send a so-called spam report to Google, whether for this update or not: (StevieD_Web from GWF said it like this) A) Yes, we knew about it and are actively doing something about it algorithmically B) Yes, we knew about it and are actively doing something about it manually. C) Yes, we knew about it but don't have enough data yet to do something about it algorithmically... maybe in an hour/day/week or whatever we will have enough data. D) Yes, we know about it, but the whole industry is one big cesspool of spam so there is nothing we can do about it unless we remove all of the sites in the industry. E) WOW, that is a new one. Thank you, thank you, thank you, we will get right on it. F) Hmmm, so you don't like your competitor very much G) What do you mean Apple is spam?

the sniga

05/28/2013 10:30 am

Read Barry's full article. You will got this topic at the last which i mentioned...

the sniga

05/28/2013 10:31 am

We love competitors but as you know first everyone love their

Graham Ginsberg

05/28/2013 11:38 am

Google via this form - I missed it - Thanks -Wonder if its for keyword stuffing too. Probably not. Can't wait for that Keyword Stuffing complaint Form LOL - #blockgoogle


05/28/2013 11:43 am

ha ha..nice one


05/28/2013 01:52 pm

I totally agree with @disqus_yH23hGYjWt:disqus google should exclude bad links instead penalizing someone..

Nick Ker

05/28/2013 05:25 pm

Paid links (by Google's definition) pass rank through to the target which can influence organic search results, and are not OK. Paid advertisements should not pass rank and are OK if they are nofollow or otherwise have some type of buffer between the linking site and the target so that no value passes through. Adwords ads do not influence organic ranking in any way since they are not direct links. Pretty big difference.

Samad Aslam Khan

05/29/2013 09:07 am

2 years passed, not got slapped yet. Rather for few of my blogs, searches increased. You get slapped when you do wrong. Apart from G's guidelines I have my own mind and experience too. Since I started, just one of my site was badly hit by Google's Very First Update. After that, never happened so. Hope it won't happen in future as well

Muneeb Siddiqui

05/30/2013 07:48 pm

I have more research on Penguin update 2.0 and do some better techniques. After penguin 2.0 live.


06/03/2013 05:43 pm

What part of "I'm just following Google SEO Starter Guide" did you not understand? The only people getting slapped are the people who don't follow or understand Google's guidelines.


06/03/2013 05:57 pm

I think you are confusing SEO with those spam email offers to rank #1. Real SEO providers do not sell keyword ranking. They sell website improvements that will help your site rank better, and off-site promotion and social media visibility improvements. Those things are totally controllable. It is the scammers who sell specific keyword ranking that are selling snake oil. Good SEOs will also make it clear that there is risk involved, and that there is no guarantee of the exact results you want even if you don't take risks. I don't think you have actually met or worked with a real SEO person, just the ones that you can get for cheap who make unrealistic promises. People want to believe that they can get in on the biggest source of traffic for very little money, and that is where the problem comes from. Shady people will take advantage of someone who thinks they can compete with Walmart for about $200 per month. Think about it. You are in real estate. Who is more likely to know how to sell a house and not end up with legal issues due to not knowing what they are doing with contracts, closing etc - the guy who gets a hefty commission, or the guy who gets about $100? Quality work costs money, no matter what industry. And people pay doctors for "maybe" every day. They go to the doctor for a physical to make sure all is well, they take drugs which may help an ailment, and cancer treatments which may not work.


06/03/2013 06:03 pm

Still seeing crazy SERPs. Different almost every time I check. Is Google still working on Penguin 2.0? Also seeing some sites I never saw before in results that don't look like they belong at the top.

T. Brown

06/04/2013 05:10 am

Is this crap legal? It seems like Google is acting almost like a monopoly on the web by causing webmasters who earn their livelihood to suffer financially. I know the whole area of cyber law is still somewhat new, but this is just totally unfair! Many good websites are being hurt due to this dang algorithm. If Google wants websites to continue posting good and original content, they need to STOP with this Penguin update crap!


06/06/2013 12:20 pm

I am not hit. But I am angry about the search results. Now only two or three first results seem relevant to inserted keywords. All others are opposite of what I look. The first page remains okay, but starting from 2nd page, I get hit by spams.


06/06/2013 12:59 pm

In our school, all multimedia treachers pronounced it as gifs.


06/16/2013 02:52 pm

nice point


06/16/2013 02:56 pm

well I have an aged site, 14 years, dropped from top of page one to bottom of page two. I think the age isn't a major factor. personally I have not noticed any decline whatsoever in online sales numbers, which is perplexing. with 25% now coming from Bing I'm beginning to think I can live without running round the google hamster wheel ad nauseum.


06/16/2013 02:59 pm

Bing is the future. Buyers use Bing. Am I in the minority by starting to rebel against google and focus on Bing?


06/16/2013 03:04 pm

Its perfectly legitimate for a bona-fide business to list in directories, paid or otherwise. Mine (as an example) has been penalised if this is the case for using normal real world business marketing by adding the business to a lot of directories over the past fifteen years, whilst I see competitors who haven't been around for a year spamming forums, yahoo answers etc and jumping through google's daft hoops. Google are losing the plot. (or are they trying to drive business to use PPC?)


06/16/2013 03:40 pm

Actually, I use DuckDuckGo now, since the US government decided they're illegally accessing Google, Bing, Yahoo search etc. DuckDuckGo doesn't SAVE any of your searches, so even if the US government asks, they don't have anything to give them :)

David Whitehouse

06/19/2013 04:25 pm

SEOChris - I wasn't talking about you matey, just someone I was dealing with at the time :)


07/05/2013 07:44 am

安いサ RAYBANサングラス ングラスを購入するとき、それはあなたが価格のサングラスのため品質を妥協する必要を意味するものではないことは間違いなく、それは75%の人々は細心の注意を持つ男性のために安いe革ベルト​​を購入することを好むと推定されているすべての人のファッションのワードローブの定番アイテムです!デザイナーメガネ機能とStyleIfのためにあなたは、スタイリッシュなサングラスを探している、あなたはさなか個性を作るだけでなく、サングラスを選ぶ必要がありますだけでなく、高度に手頃な価格ですこれは私たちの自然であり、完全では粉塵や汚染から目を守る サングラス 種類 サングラスには非常に低いだろう反して、広範囲かつ手頃な価格の眼鏡今日の様に、実際には寿命のために続く高品質のメガネを見つけることができます 回通過すると、それ ゴルフ 通販 ぞれの季節のファッション決して変更の人間の追求として、私な何かを見つけることができ、彼らのスタイリッシュなデザインは、着用者のシックを与えるさらに重要なのは、それらはそう卸売価格で販売されているように見えるあなたは立派な開発コースと、それらにあまりを費やす必要がないこと、サ tom ford サングラス ングラスは巨大なファッション店で場所を発見した長期的なスタイルで利用可能な幅広い選択肢があるので安いサングラスを購入するのに最適なデスティネーションとなり、デザインとさらに重要なことに、彼らは卸売価格で販売されているクライアントの味や好みに応じて色合いあなたがそれらにあまりを費やす必要がなレイバン 偏光サングラス いように

Syed Waqas Bukhari

08/29/2013 01:23 pm

thank you to all


10/29/2013 08:34 pm

They seem to now want only super large sites with lots of Adsense ads to rank well. A good example is that site that now ranks #1 for most zip code, city, and demographic searches. They use the same census data as other sites but they have Google ads and searches on top of every page. Nice! I use Bing for searches now! Google is fixed.


10/29/2013 08:55 pm

Realtors HATE Trulia and Zillow, since they list the prices of homes just sold around the listing. Buyers LOVE Zillow, since they know what homes are going for in the area and can see the rise and fall in price trends. They basically know if the seller is high balling them!


03/16/2014 10:23 pm

Guys just sharing, I've found this interesting! Check it out!

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